When should a pastor step down?

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

Much prayer and direction from Yahweh is needed. Wouldn't have any consideration or conversations with anyone in the church without it. Also, assuming that you're already praying for him and his family - and showing support in other ways.

Urbanredneck said:

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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Just my humble opinion - please do not take offense.

I do not think you are in the position to evaluate or judge your pastor, let alone start talking about what stage of life he is at, his kids are grown etc.. Frankly what is going on in his personal life is none of your business (unless it is extremely questionable behavior -- NOT 'HIS KIDS ARE OUT OF THE HOUSE NOW'). The fact that you are even thinking about and discussing his 'stage of life' as it pertains to his 'performance' ... is innapropriate.

I think you need to humble yourself and that you've already crossed the line on this one - but that's just my opinion.

Truthfully your final question about potentially discussing the paster stepping aside or retiring disgusts me. If you feel that strongly about the man I would consider quietly finding another church if that is an option.

GoodSpeed said:

Just my humble opinion - please do not take offense.

I do not think you are in the position to evaluate or judge your pastor, let alone start talking about what stage of life he is at, his kids are grown etc.. Frankly what is going on in his personal life is none of your business (unless it is extremely questionable behavior -- NOT 'HIS KIDS ARE OUT OF THE HOUSE NOW'). The fact that you are even thinking about and discussing his 'stage of life' as it pertains to his 'performance' ... is innapropriate.

I think you need to humble yourself and that you've already crossed the line on this one - but that's just my opinion.

Truthfully your final question about potentially discussing the paster stepping aside or retiring disgusts me. If you feel that strongly about the man I would consider quietly finding another church if that is an option.

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I totally agree. You need to find another church....and look in the mirror a little more at your own lack of spark.

Urbanredneck said:

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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Firstly, please remember it is not up to you to decide this for him

I don't know how your church works, but I personally think the church belongs to the entire congregation, ideally there should be a vote or at least the church committee should get people opinions before making any further decisions regarding his employment.

Secondly, your definition of what constitute a fit pastor seems rather subjective and harsh, so pastor should step aside simply because he is not " sparkly" enough?

geez, would you like it if your employees assess you in the same manner?

so by all means , have a friendly word with him if you wish, but it is not your place to tell him what to do, and he certainly have no obligations to listen to you or let you tell him what to do.

TravelerFarAwayFromHome said:

so by all means , have a friendly word with him if you wish, but it is not your place to tell him what to do, and he certainly have no obligations to listen to you or let you tell him what to do.

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It is innapropriate to have any discussion with the pastor at all regarding this; not just 'not tell him what to do'.

How could someone have the audacity to strike up a conversation w their pastor and mention to him that he just doesn't seem 'into it' any more?
or ... 'geez John, you seem tired these days' ...
considering striking up this conversation is WAY off the mark.

The church (imo) does belong to the entire congregation - but again -- would you sit around with other members and even hint that 'hey I just wanted to see if you guys also noticed that John is just not what he used to be ...'

To the OP: WALK AWAY if you feel this way. No discussion is warranted.

I would be totally embarassed if someone I knew spoke with the pastor regarding this OR brought it up with the congregation. If the issue was raised in a meeting I was in I would make it clear it was a disgusting comment.

GoodSpeed said:

It is innapropriate to have any discussion with the pastor at all regarding this; not just 'not tell him what to do'.

How could someone have the audacity to strike up a conversation w their pastor and mention to him that he just doesn't seem 'into it' any more?
or ... 'geez John, you seem tired these days' ...
considering striking up this conversation is WAY off the mark.

The church (imo) does belong to the entire congregation - but again -- would you sit around with other members and even hint that 'hey I just wanted to see if you guys also noticed that John is just not what he used to be ...'

To the OP: WALK AWAY if you feel this way. No discussion is warranted.

I would be totally embarassed if someone I knew spoke with the pastor regarding this OR brought it up with the congregation. If the issue was raised in a meeting I was in I would make it clear it was a disgusting comment.

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well being less than sparkly is certainly no reason to ask the pastor to step down

but I can certainly see this type of conversation take place between close friends, only out of concerns of course, which does not seem to be the case here.

Urbanredneck said:

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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This is a matter left to the Board of Directors / Elders of your church or Denomination., and not an individual. The only time i would get involved in such a matter as a Member, is if there is hands-down clearcut evidence that the Pastor is making a lifestyle out of something immoral, unethical, illegal, that is consistently teaching things that a clearly unbiblical to the Congregation, or no longer preaches the Gospel Message in his Sermons at some point ; and even at that....I would lovingly approach him , state your concern, and give him a chance to see the light and change willingly.

If anyone, the leadership - including the pastor himself - should be discussing such matters.

BTW, they should also be discussing why he and his wife are together only on weekends; as a leader of a church, I'd find that a bit alarming.

Look at it from the standpoint of employment. Pastors apply for jobs, sometimes get them and sometimes don't. They can get just as discouraged as we can that they are seen as too old to hire. Or not seen with potential for administrative roles, and not yet being able to afford retirement. A pastor can't just decide, "I'm going to mentor others" and have no income.

Add some of the other possibilities: spending a hundred thou per child on colleges, supporting two residences on two average incomes, needing to keep his retirement package intact at this time until he feels more secure about his future.

And who knows -- maybe his wife wanted to get away from the fishbowl life, or even take a break from him for a while. It's not the congregation's business, but they can at least be supportive.

He might be feeling drained about life, empty nest, wife somewhere else. But he also might feel drained, over people he counsels not taking his advice, people liking his sermons but then going and do their own thing. Most middle-agers go through a discouragement about life not being what it was cracked up to be.

But a pastor doesn't have the luxury of down times.

It turns out to be inappropriate for a leader to get counsel from people on the inside of an organization -- information can leak when confidentiality was expected.

Since your pastor is part of the fellowship, it would be a great time for the members to care for him, instead of drive him out. Eleven years in fellowship with others should deserve some thoughtful loyalty.

If you look at it as whether he's doing his job, think carefully. He is probably in the mid-range of the average salary of your members, but working evenings and weekends. Is he fulfilling his contracted expectations to deliver a sermon, coordinate office staff, lead weddings and funerals, counsel for no additional fees, manage volunteers? I would guess he does those parts with one hand tied behind his back.

If a spark is missing, then it's important for a congregation to look at themselves first.
Then talk with the elders about whether he has had a sabbatical, or educational trip.

Eleven years is a long time, and some denominations put limits on terms. But I would not recommend a pastor be laid off just because they're looking weary. A whole church changes as they go through different things, and it could be that others grew weary first, over the economy and stresses of life.

It sounds like he is still doing his job properly. Just differently than your ideal. Older and wiser.

If the congregation needs a spark, then any one person can inject more excitement themselves, by leading youth or music or any other group with more vigor and enthusiasm. A pastor is a facilitator, and the members are all priests and joint heirs with Christ. We should all be working to bring the life and love of God into others' lives.

TheyCallMeDavid said:

This is a matter left to the Board of Directors / Elders of your church or Denomination., and not an individual. The only time i would get involved in such a matter as a Member, is if there is hands-down clearcut evidence that the Pastor is making a lifestyle out of something immoral, unethical, illegal, that is consistently teaching things that a clearly unbiblical to the Congregation, or no longer preaches the Gospel Message in his Sermons at some point ; and even at that....I would lovingly approach him , state your concern, and give him a chance to see the light and change willingly.

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I agree with you Dave, but you are forgetting two other important cause for a pastor's dismissal.

abuse his power and actively bullying someone within the congregation.

Urbanredneck said:

While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

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The best thing to do would be to talk to the pastor privately and tell him how you feel. It is possible that he is having some problem you aren't aware of. It is also possible that the problem is with you and talking to the pastor might give you the insight to see what it is. In either case it would probably help him to get feedback about how others are responding to him. However, it wouldn't be a good idea for you to suggest that he retire. Other people may still be getting help from his work even if you aren't.

theophilus40 said:

The best thing to do would be to talk to the pastor privately and tell him how you feel. It is possible that he is having some problem you aren't aware of. It is also possible that the problem is with you and talking to the pastor might give you the insight to see what it is. In either case it would probably help him to get feedback about how others are responding to him. However, it wouldn't be a good idea for you to suggest that he retire. Other people may still be getting help from his work even if you aren't.

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not to mention "not being sparkly enough" is a ridiculous reason to aske a pastor to step down!

Urbanredneck said:

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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Don't take this wrong, but I think your "reasons" for wanting your pastor to step down/aside are absolutely ridiculous. He's "older"? Seriously? Charles Stanely (one of my favorite people on the planet) has been pastoring the same church for over 40 years and he's 80 years old! He's still one of the most beloved and impactful pastors on the planet.

A pastor doesn't need to "step down" unless God tells him to. Granted, there are many, many pastors out there who have no business leading a church, but that still holds to my previous statement. IMHO God never told them to become pastors, they did it out of selfish ambition or peer pressure.

If your pastor seems to be struggling, and you know he used to be "on fire", how about praying for God to strengthen and revitalize him instead of silently dragging him down inside your head?

We all "ebb and flow"-- this is a part of life...everyone doesn't remain
"sparky"...if your minister isn't "sparky" diligently be praying for him
and then let him know you have been praying for him.

As you have mentioned there are some life changes going in in his
family-- children in college, another one is getting married, wife works
out of town, there's a major "empty-nest" thing happening, all this can
"weigh" on a person's mind/spirit.

I do think people have the right to remove their pastors as long as their pastors are going against Gods words.

Ie we don't have to wait for God to do it.

Urbanredneck said:

Our pastor is a good man. He's been here about 11 years and for the first 8-10 he was very good and the church grew. However about the last 2-3 years he seems to have lost his steam. While he still does a good sermon and works with the people well, I just dont see the same spark their used to be.

Frankly I feel he is getting older. His kids are grown, in college, and one is getting married. His wife actually works in a different city and commutes home on weekends.

I just feel that 11 years in one church is about enough and he should think about moving onto an administration role or a role in the background. Maybe as a mentor for younger pastors and such.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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Have you not heard the Bible verse
"Touch NOT my anointed and do my prophet no harm?"
If God anointed him to be there, then he will be there.
You dont discard pastors like old clothes just because they are becoming boring or old. Moses was leader till he died, same with Elijah before he was taken up. Everyone God apponted led until God called them home.
Only God appoints and only Him can remove. You can't do God's job for him. The man may be getting old or lost spark but hes still called by God
Pray for His spark to come back!

I do think people have the right to remove their pastors as long as their pastors are going against Gods words.

Ie we don't have to wait for God to do it.

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This is a matter left to the Board of Directors / Elders of your church or Denomination., and not an individual.

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In most denominational churches, the elders/board oversee the employment of the pastor. It would be appropriate to bring your concerns to an elder, who may find it useful to bring the topic to the other elders. The pastor usually sits in on elder meetings, so it would not be considerate to write a note that gets read at the meeting.

This is the acceptable process, and no one needs to feel guilty for bringing a concern to the board, as long as they have a reasonable request that ties in with the mission of the church.

If the elders are in agreement, they might take this to a congregational vote. Some denominations do not use the vote for the actual decision, but to inform elders of consensus and to bring up additional practical matters that relate.

The pastor would leave the room for the vote, and possibly for the discussion -- in some denominations the pastor is not a voting member of the church.

Also, the denomination's regional administration will get involved in the replacement of a pastor. Some ask for a congregational vote every four or so years, for renewal of terms. In a case like that, the pastor knows he might be replaced, and is dutifully fulfilling his contract.

A nomination committee would be formed from members willing to seek out applicants, interview, visit churches and listen to sample sermons. Then a narrowed selection will come to the church to give a sermon so the congregation can offer feedback.

But as said above, using the reasoning of age... technically that is age discrimination, under labor law, and the church needs to be careful what they say.

(BTW I would love a church right now with a less sparky pastor!)

http://pastors.com/pastoral-longevity/

I do not know the exact situation but from what OP described, I don't see a lot of reason for him to step down however I completely disagree that we as a congregation do not have the right to question if he should step down or not. If the pastor is not meeting the goal he is not protected by the fact that he is a pastor. He need's to fullfil his duty and be held accountable just like the rest of us are.

That would bring me to this OP question.

So I ask you, as a believer what circumstance would cause you to discuss with a pastor the idea of him/her maybe stepping aside or maybe even full retirement?

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The OP description would not fit my personal reason for hiring a new pastor. I have, however, been through pastoral replacements before. Some of the reasons the congregations found:

- Spinning off doctrine contradicting the denomination's tenets
- Running church expectations with cult-like demands
- Dividing the members and driving out ones they deemed too controversial
- Using sexually-toned words frequently in sermons, offending people who had been abused.
- Golfing during scheduled counseling days, and not being accountable to elders for use of their time.
- Taking on debt without actual church approval, hiring contractors without paying them, opposing the town zoning board and taking on irresponsible development in the name of faith.
- Pastor stopped believing in God.
- Porn addiction during office hours
- In a friend's church, sexual abuse by pastor covered up.
- In another friend's church, pastor fell off the wagon.
- A dear pastor friend of ours died of cancer, and during his treatment he was excused from service, but still allowed to preach when he wanted to. That is also a worthwhile reason.

We are all God's anointed, but some of us fall and walk in sin. The Timothy guidelines for an elder show that a pastor needs to live in a way that represents what they teach.