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When is it time to abandon a sinking ship? (YEC?)

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Jase

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Then why was Noah aboard the Ark for over a year?
Considering that there are tons of problems with the Ark alone, from it not being seaworthy to having to load the animals every second for a week, to disposing of waste, and feeding them, what makes you think there was actually an ark? Maybe the Ark is metaphoric for divine protection.
 
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Jase

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No, you don't need to restage a miracle. But when a global flood leaves worldwide deposits, consistent with the explicit revelation of a loving God, everything is fine because the evidence of the event is consistent with the description of the event.
But pop, there is no evidence left in the world pointing to a global flood. In fact all the evidence that is here on Earth directly contradicts the entire event.
 
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gluadys

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Not my church leaders.

If your denomination sees itself in any way as part of the Church Universal, the Body of Christ, then the church leaders of the second century are just as much your church leaders as those of the 21st century.

Or are you one of those who believe the Church disappeared from earth between the days of the apostles and the appearance of your denomination?
 
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Jase

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It would have been pretty senseless then, for Scripture to include the exact measurements and dimensions, as well as the materials it was to be built with.



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Not if you're trying to incorporate it into a mythical story to make it easier to pass down from generation to generation since back then, everything was done orally, done written.

But the measurements are an issue anyway, since nautical engineers today have said the construction of such an Ark would never stay afloat, or hold that many animals.
 
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hithesh

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The event horizon is the point beyond which everything is mysterious and unknowable, except to the extent that we KNOW it excludes what the Bible says. He he he.

Well, here's a nasty arrogance on your part. I devote my life to living in the light of God, while YECs such as Ken Hovind corrupt the word of God for the lure of riches, and iniquity; and while YECs such as the Coral Ridge Ministry, pursue a "Theocracy", to oppress the people, and to choke the Light out from this world, by tyranny, by power of few ministers of the anti-christ.

You, unknowingly deceive the people in what seems as little, but you put the blanket over their eyes, so they walk into the dens of deceivers, and charlatans.

There is a reason, why these so called "faith-healers", and "prosperity gospel" ministers, all promote YEC, because they understand that such gullible people, are easy prey.
 
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Not if you're trying to incorporate it into a mythical story to make it easier to pass down from generation to generation since back then, everything was done orally, done written.
The measurements, dimensions and details would make it all the harder to pass on simply as some mythical story. But often in Scripture, elements of the same story can have a dual meaning, both literal and metaphorical.

But the measurements are an issue anyway, since nautical engineers today have said the construction of such an Ark would never stay afloat, or hold that many animals.

They also said the Titanic was unsinkable, and that bumble bees shouldn't be able to fly. But it did and they do.


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AV1611VET

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...what makes you think there was actually an ark?

I read it somewhere.

Maybe the Ark is metaphoric for divine protection.

Then what happened to the Water Canopy?
What happened to the race of humans that cohabited with the angels?
Explain Jude 6.
What specific judgement ended the dispensation of Consciousness?
Where did the Ice Age come from?
Why did the dinosaurs eventually die out?
Who are Shem, Ham, and Japheth; and what's a 'Semite'?

A non-literal Ark doesn't jive with the Bible --- at all.

Would the Bible just randomly mention the Ethiopian eunuch, Saul of Tarsus, and Cornelius of the Italian band getting saved for nothing?
  • Acts 8 = Ethiopian Eunuch = Ham
  • Acts 9 = Saul of Tarsus = Shem
  • Acts 10 = Cornelius = Japheth
Believe me --- the Ark was real.
 
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AV1611VET

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But pop, there is no evidence left in the world pointing to a global flood. In fact all the evidence that is here on Earth directly contradicts the entire event.

Ya think maybe Someone cleaned it up for safety and sanitary reasons?
 
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AV1611VET

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If your denomination sees itself in any way as part of the Church Universal, the Body of Christ, then the church leaders of the second century are just as much your church leaders as those of the 21st century.

First of all - (and I really don't want to get into this here) - Independent Baptists are not a denomination - they are a body of churches.

Second, I'm sure you meant Family of God, instead of Body of Christ, as Body of Christ deals with individual members.

Thirdly, what Joe did back in history does not reflect on what Tom does here. God is not going to hold us accountable for what Martin Luther, John Calvin, or anyone else did or didn't do, thought or didn't think.

Or are you one of those who believe the Church disappeared from earth between the days of the apostles and the appearance of your denomination?

Nope --- never heard that before.
 
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Jadis40

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1. There was no vapor canopy. Even Answers in Genesis doesn't hold to that particular idea.

2. What about this verse:
Gensis 6:4
The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men, and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

Is the afterward referring to the flood, or the days of Noah? Either way, I think it indicates that the flood was definitely not global, as that verse definitely seems to indicate that the Nephilim were still around.

Can't answer the dispensation related question, as I don't believe in it.

The ice age ended 10,000 years ago, but what caused it was most likely the result of a solar minimum during which time there was a decreased output of solar radiation. I will refer you to this webpage:

http://culter.colorado.edu/~saelias/glacier.html

I must add that I live in Northeastern Indiana. There's plenty of proof for the glaciers, as indicated in the Fort Wayne moraine which is only 25 miles away from here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glacial_Lake_Maumee

The dinosaurs died out 65 million years ago. There are differing theories, from climate change to an asteroid or comet impact.

"Semite" as a term, refers to those who speak a Semitic language, such as Arabic or Hebrew, which is in turn part of the Afro-Asiatic language family. The Afro-Asiatic language family originated in Northern Africa. In contrast, the Indo-European language family of which English and Sanskrit is a part of, originated about 6,000 years ago in the Anatolia region of Turkey. So the differences in languages existed long before 4000 BC. I might add that this proves that the date of 2348 BC for the supposed "global" flood is definitely wrong.
 
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1. There was no vapor canopy. Even Answers in Genesis doesn't hold to that particular idea.

Well --- I couldn't care less what AIG believes or doesn't believe --- but suffice it to say, there's too much you don't believe for us to have a meaningful discussion.
 
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gluadys

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First of all - (and I really don't want to get into this here) - Independent Baptists are not a denomination - they are a body of churches.

Whatever. I am not going to get into church polity. The question is whether these churches see themselves as connected to the Church.

Second, I'm sure you meant Family of God, instead of Body of Christ, as Body of Christ deals with individual members.

I meant both. There is one Body of Christ of which we each are individually members, as Paul explains. There is one Household or Family of God of which we each are individually members. Two images of the Church, as is the Bride of Christ and Christ as the Vine and ourselves as Branches.

Thirdly, what Joe did back in history does not reflect on what Tom does here. God is not going to hold us accountable for what Martin Luther, John Calvin, or anyone else did or didn't do, thought or didn't think.

I wasn't implying that your or your current church leaders are accountable for what others say. But you can't reject the leaders of previous generations as your church leaders either. Not without either asserting that they are not part of the Church or that your church is not part of the Church.

Nope --- never heard that before.

Good. It seems to be a mark of certain cults who see themselves as a long-awaited restoration of a true church unknown since the first century. Really bad theology.
 
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pastorkevin73

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What it comes down to is do you believe God and what He says in His Word orare you going to believe man?
 
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AV1611VET

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But you can't reject the leaders of previous generations as your church leaders either.

My church did not exist prior to 1975. We have no leaders prior to that time --- none.

Our Leader is Jesus Christ, the Shepherd, and our pastor is the undershepherd --- period.

You can rant and rave about the Crusades, the Inquisition, anything you want to (if you want to), and I'll say the same thing --- it wasn't us.

I don't care if Jim Jones of the Guyana Tragedy was an Independent Baptist (which he wasn't) --- we had nothing to do with it.

There's a good book on this called the Trail of Blood, by J. M. Carroll --- good reading.
 
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pastorkevin73

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You really can't use this argument for three reasons:
1. There are Cristian colleges and seminaries that advocate evolution (hard to believe but true).
2. Creationism is not damaging to faith. Actually it takes faith to believe it.
3. The world calls Christians silly for believing in God and a risen Lord. Faith is sillyness in the worlds eyes, therefore, calling creationists silly only afiirms the Creationists clam to faith. Walk by faith, not by sight!
 
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Jase

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They also said the Titanic was unsinkable, and that bumble bees shouldn't be able to fly. But it did and they do.


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Have you ever really investigated the amount of miracles and corrections God would have had to do to make the Global flood story feasible? It's so ridiculously absurd that it is illogical for God to ever waste the effort to do it, when he could just zap all the evil people and animals in one swift blow.

As Confuscius said: "Do not use cannon to kill mosquito"
 
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No, I haven't. Please enlighten me.




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