Originally Posted by
Laodicean
Does that mean that if we are lost, it's not our fault, since we can't know all the facts? And if satan is the ultimate prodigal son, do you think he will return to God? And if he doesn't return, and if he gets burned up in the lake of fire, will it be God's fault that this happens?
We are not lost... God knows exactly where we are, and we have never left the place we were created, i.e. earth....
awww, come on, Stormy. You're giving me a hard time.
You know what I mean by "lost."
If we lose eternal life -- and maybe we won't, according to your point of view -- but if it should so turn out that some of us lose eternal life, would that be God's fault?
We don't know everything, so the question is what will God do... As a parent, I know what I do when my child makes a decision without having all the facts... I think the Infinite Ruler of all is much wiser than I, so its His call...
If your 18-year-old child decides to leave your home and refuses to return, choosing instead to sleep on the streets and fend for himself, would you go after him, bind him, and force him to return to you? Would you keep him locked up in your house, against his will, because you know that if you let him go free, that he will head right back out to live on the streets?
Originally Posted by Laodicean
Okay. So what about those who have already died without having a chance to know all the facts and who, with what facts they did have in hand, have refused to believe in God? Will they, after millions of years, have another chance to be brought back to learn all the facts?
We don't know that.... or let me say I don't know that they died refusing to believe in God... and if they did, again, I believe he will take into consideration what they knew, and how it played out in their living.....
I agree with you here. But what if they died while deliberately refusing to take into consideration what little they already knew? Would they still be saved?
Originally Posted by Laodicean
It sounds to me as if you are saying that no one will be lost. Am I right in that conclusion? And if so, what is your basis, scriptural or otherwise, for holding this position?
Well, if God knows that humanity will eventually come to him, then it is possible that no one will be lost... There is a text that says God is not willing that any should perish.... so the question is how determined he is to make sure no one does....
I imagine that God is
very determined that no one should perish. But He is also
very determined that His created beings remain free to choose who they will serve.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
What examples do you have of human relationships being restored when one or the other does not want to return to the relationship? Or maybe I misunderstood what you said, the way you phrased it?
What I attempted to say is with human interactions there are times when a relationship cannot be restored. However, we are talking about God, and a different set of rules apply I think...
What are the different set of rules that apply? I would think that the same rules of freewill would function in both areas of relationship -- God/human and human/human.
Originally Posted by Laodicean
So if any of us are lost, it would be God's fault? Since I'm fairly sure that you don't believe that God can be at fault, then maybe your position is that all will eventually be saved, right?
Fault suggests that there must be someone to blame, which is negative.... however it is God's "fault" that we were created... I think a better word would be responsible.... God is responsible for everything that is created, so I think he will take his responsibility seriously
I agree that He will take His responsibility seriously. Indeed, He already did. He created a way for mankind to find their way back to their original state. Now the responsibility is back in our court. It is left to us how we respond to this provision.
ensuring that His relationship with those beings he created will be restored...
I'd phrase that a little differently, wth your permission. God has taken His responsibility seriously, ensuring that a way be provided in which His relationship with those beings He created
can be restored. Would this rephrasing be acceptable?