What's your eschaetological view?

sola fide · Feb 5, 2004

Not particularly looking for debate here. I just want to see the outcome of the poll. Sorry if I leave anyone's position out, but I will put "other" if that is the case.

1. Amil = We are currently living under the kingdom reign of Christ
2. Postmil = Christ will return after the "millenium".
3. Premil (Historic) = Christ will return before the "millenium", but after the "tribulation"
4. Premil (Dispensational) = Christ will return before the "millenium", but will "call up" His church before the "tribulation".
5. Other = Anything else that I've missed.

Phoebe · Feb 6, 2004

I voted other because I don't know. It all confounds me.
I do believe that Revelation is true, that there will be a Second Advent. (return of Christ) Just hold fast to the Faith, and you'll be okay.

BBAS 64 · Feb 6, 2004

sola fide said:
Not particularly looking for debate here. I just want to see the outcome of the poll. Sorry if I leave anyone's position out, but I will put "other" if that is the case.

1. Amil = We are currently living under the kingdom reign of Christ
2. Postmil = Christ will return after the "millenium".
3. Premil (Historic) = Christ will return before the "millenium", but after the "tribulation"
4. Premil (Dispensational) = Christ will return before the "millenium", but will "call up" His church before the "tribulation".
5. Other = Anything else that I've missed.

Good Day, Sola fide

I vote #4 because this is the veiw that seems to me to have a bases in Scripture from my understanding, I will admit it is some what limted. Due to my Christain walk I have always been drawn to Dispensational Churches. I know it is one of those things I must study more to understand better.

For His Glory Alone!

BBAS

countrymousenc · Feb 6, 2004

Voting "amil"

racer · Feb 6, 2004

Premil historical.

II Paradox II · Feb 6, 2004

Historical premill... but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

ken

racer · Feb 6, 2004

II Paradox II said:
Historical premill... but I wouldn't stake my life on it.

ken

Same here!

dsdumpling · Feb 6, 2004

Premil (Dispensational) for me.

Ioustinos · Feb 6, 2004

I voted Amil.

I once was pre-mil but upon further study I find amil. to agree with scripture much better.

Isaiah 53 · Feb 6, 2004

Premil here. It's the only one that makes sense with Scripture.

PEACE IN CHRIST!!!

Terri · Feb 6, 2004

dsdumpling said:
Premil (Dispensational) for me.

Dawn it does appear that we agree on just about everything!!

I'm Premil (Dispensational) too!!

And I see I have yet another thing to like about BBAS 64!

dsdumpling · Feb 6, 2004

Terri said:
Dawn it does appear that we agree on just about everything!!

I'm Premil (Dispensational) too!!

And I see I have yet another thing to like about BBAS 64!

Were we seperated at birth? We have got to make that trip to TN sometime.

Terri · Feb 6, 2004

dsdumpling said:
Were we seperated at birth? We have got to make that trip to TN sometime.

Well, I just knew I had a sister in Delaware somewhere.

I wish we knew which people were voting which way on this poll sola fide. I think most times non-protestants come in and vote so we don't really get an accurate count of what we here in the protestant area believe. I would really like to know who all of the other Premil-Dispensationalist are on here!!

So, if you voted that way, please post and let us know. Nosey minds want to know!

Justme · Feb 6, 2004

Hi Forum,

From your list of possibles you are considering a future event.

I do not consider the bible to discuss any future end times, therefore eschatology, as you define it, doesn't exist for me.

Justme

sola fide · Feb 6, 2004

Oh, BTW I hold to the Amil position for the record.

JVAC · Feb 6, 2004

In my opinion,

I don't think it is the duty of a Christian to speculate when it will come, just know it is near. We will not know the exact time of the coming of Christ, for it is not ours to know, therefore don't obsess with it. Just go about the work of the kingdom always, and on that glorious day we shall se our Lord coming on the clouds in all his glory to welcome us home.

Eschatology to me is a vain science.

Preachers12 · Feb 7, 2004

Brethren in Christ, God give you Peace.

Amillennial in that the Kingdom is here now.

God Bless,
P12

Terri · Feb 8, 2004

Here is some evidence of pre millennial teaching in the second century church I ran across:

The History of Prophetic Interpretation (from Richards Complete Bible handbook, page 813)

The Early Church. The Didache was probably written about A.D. 100. It gives this picture of the future as understood in the postapostolic church: "Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ye ready, for ye know not the hour in which our Lord cometh. When lawlessness increaseth, they shall hate and betray and persecute one another, and then shall appear the 'world-deceiver' as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth will be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish, but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the sign of the truth, (a) first, the sign of an opening in heaven, the outspreading of the heaven; (b) then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and (c) third, the resurrection of the dead, yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven" (Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. VII, 382).

In A.D. 140-160 Justin Martyr wrote, "I, and as many as are orthodox Christians, do acknowledge that there shall be a resurrection of the body, and a residence of a thousand years in Jerusalem, adorned and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel, Isaiah, and others do unanimously attest" (Fathers, Vol. 1, 239).

Irenaeus, a great missionary and church father, who died in A. D . 202, summed up the picture of the future taught in his day., "When the Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then shall the Lord come from heaven in clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man, and those who follow him, into the lake of fire; but bringing for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which the kingdom of the Lord declared that `many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob' " (Fathers, Vol. 1, 560).

Click to expand...

I find it kinda interesting although I think a simple study of the bible would make everyone premil. We don't really need those old time dudes to tell us what's happening!

Breetai · Feb 8, 2004

Well, officially I voted amil. I've studied this subject a bit and I don't discount all of the other theories. It's really all the way that you go about reading scripture. If you're a dispensationalist, you're going to read the Bible differently then an amillennialist. Like so many have already said; it really doesn't matter how you think Jesus will return. Your focus should be on the Cross and His resurrection!

BTW, I'm Lutheran and the official Lutheran stance is amillennialism. Lutheran doctrine rejects a literal millennium. Us Lutherans place very little emphesis on the events surrounding His return. We just know that He will return. We're too busy focusing on His saving grace.

Terri · Feb 9, 2004

The origin of a-millennialism.

This is a piece that I believe quite nicely answers the question of the origin of a-millennialism:

{start quote}It seems that the earliest prophetic view of the church was pre-millennial (ie: a time of great destruction would come, followed by the return of Jesus, followed by a literal millennial age, as prophesied in the Old Testament). Justin Martyr and Irenaeus both taught this view in the second century.

In the 4th century with Constantine's conversion and the beginning of the Holy (Christian) Roman Empire an alternate view of prophecy came to dominate Christian thinking. This view is often called a-millennialism or "realized" millennialism. It teaches that we are now living in (have realized) the millennial age. It teaches that the first resurrection of Rev 20 is a spiritual resurrection (conversion to believing in Jesus being the first resurrection) and that Satan's confinement in the abyss is limited in scope, keeping him only from deceiving ALL the residents of all of the nations (Presumably Satan can, theoretically, deceive 99.9% but not 100% of all of the residences of a nation).

The theological foundation of this view was built by men like Origen and Augustine who took a far more allegorical (rather than literal) view of prophecy. As Hal Lindsey explains in his book "The Road to Holocaust", this view gained prominence first in the Theological school of Alexandria which began to teach an allegorical approach to Bible interpretation to facilitate an integration of Biblical teaching with Greek philosophy.

I believe there are 2 reasons why amillenialism came to dominate Christian thinking.

First the allegorical approach to Bible interpretation strips the Bible of any objective meaning. Any words might mean any thing. Such an approach inevitably drives one to put his faith in the interpreter rather than the Bible itself. This approach serves well the interests of any who claim to be the one true church and thus the final authority on what the Bible really says. Under this approach the Bible corrects no man and any man can "correct" the Bible.

Secondly, the rise of the Holy Roman empire no doubt looked to contemporary Christians like the coming of the millennial age. In this new age, a formerly persecuted church was now giving spiritual advice to the Emperor of Rome. It could have been reasoned that Jesus had not literally come back but maybe He had come back spiritually speaking, in a kind of world wide spiritual resurrection as evidenced by the fall of Rome (spiritually speaking) into the hands of the Christians. The nice (destructive?) thing about allegory is that you can make almost any words mean anything. The thinking of the day might have been, "The millennium is here, why fight it, just enjoy it."

History shows that what began as the "Holy Roman Empire" under Constantine eventually disintegrated into the dark ages and ultimately the corruption that forced the Reformation. Increasingly horrible wars and plagues would continue to oppress mankind to this very day. No literal millennium had come at all.

This question really comes down to how to interpret the Bible.

Should our bias be literal as is our bias with other texts (if the plain sense makes sense, seek no other sense) noting symbolic language where it is obvious we must do so?

Or is the Bible all really symbolic, in which case the whole faith of the reformation becomes questionable (namely using the Bible to evaluate the church)?

The faith of many old line reformed churches seems to be that all of the Bible is to be taken literally, except prophecy, which is always to be read with an allegorical bias. But where is the Biblical calling to adopt that dual approach? It was not the approach of Justin Martyr and Irenaeus and presumably, by extension, the 2nd century church in general. {end quote}

The only problem I have found with Luther is that he just didn't have enough time in his life to correct all the the wrong doctrines that he brought with him out of his previous church. Had he lived longer I believe a-millennialism is an error he would have hopefully eventually corrected.

What's your eschaetological view?

Which one?

Amil

Postmil

Premil (Hisotric/Classical)

Premil (Dispensational)

Other

neo-Puritan

TwoBrickShyOfAFullLoad

Contributor

Dances With Mop

Contributor

Oracle of the Obvious

Contributor

Well-Known Member

Veteran

Catholic Apologist

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

neo-Puritan

Baptized into His name

Unworthy

Senior Veteran

For I am not ashamed of the Gospel...

Senior Veteran

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