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What's with all the conspiracy theories?

Blackwater Babe

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It wasn't a demolition. This has already been debunked for you. However, for whatever reason, you have decided you would prefer to believe the debunked conspiracy gibberish.
 
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Nekoda

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It wasn't a demolition. This has already been debunked for you. However, for whatever reason, you have decided you would prefer to believe the debunked conspiracy gibberish.


Perhaps not. And your eyes are fooling you here:



And here:



And here:



Nothing to see here. In T.V. land, Bridges change location, heck, they even move...buildings disappear, and planes change shape and determine whether the sun will reflect against them or not.
 
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Nekoda

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Seriously? Different camera angles, different cameras with different depths of field is somehow proof of a conspiracy? Holy pogo sticks.

I know it's hard to accept. You are firmly attached to the official story for psychological reasons. This is why you accept these shots as all being plausible by some excuse of angle or depth.

Shot 1: The WTC towers shown are at approximately the same distance from the camera - but the bridge in the right hand photo is much further away.

I don't know about you - but if I zoom my camera - everything in the frame must get bigger or smaller. I can't selectively zoom something in or out and keep the rest of the forground or background the same size.

It is not possible.

Shot 2: Even as the camera stops zooming out and is in a static position, the bridge keeps moving left. I don't know if walking bridges are a part of your reality - but they certainly aren't part of mine.

Shot 3: Almost exact same distance, exact same depth, and same angle. Plane in left frame is black - doesn't reflect sun. Plane in right hand frame does. Left hand frame shows building with green top as a prominent feature - right hand frame the green topped building is missing.
 
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Blackwater Babe

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It is, actually. Its called "depth of field". Don't take my word for it. Take a camera out and play around a bit, and you'll see there's nothing suspicious about the photos you posted.

Almost.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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I know it's hard to accept. You are firmly attached to the official story for psychological reasons. This is why you accept these shots as all being plausible by some excuse of angle or depth.

I love when CTists, especially Truthers, not only think they've uncovered some secret mystery that we all saw, but only they have seen the TRVTH[sup]TM[/sup], they're also psychologists and have insight into the psyche of people skeptical of their claims. Either that or they think they can read minds.
 
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Nekoda

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Don't know about having a monopoly on Truth[sup]TM[/sup] but "CTists" that I've met typically are skeptical people who are analytical thinkers and get more of their information in the printed form rather than through the hypnosis form that T.V. and movies provide. Something being told to them doesn't add up - so they dig in. Many people, on the other hand - also have reservations - but either social pressure or lack of time/inclination to dig and, not to mention, fear - prevents them from working out those reservations.

As for psychology - insofar as traumatizing events - most of us believed, and had a strong emotional reaction to - the official story being fed us at the time.

Then when things didn't fit - and we started to research - there was similar experience on the "waking up" side. And even that uncomfortable feeling could only be taken step by step.

So the psychology, at least from where I'm sitting - is based on personal experience - and not just about things considered a conspiracy. It's like having a loved one with cancer. You pray and pray and believe God will heal them - your hopeful with medical treatment - then bam - they're dead - and there's nothing left to do but accept the reality of it.

It's called denial. And one doesn't need a Psychology degree to recognize it.
 
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durangodawood

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You simply dont know how cameras work..... if you think you cannot get those 2 shots.
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(hint: the 2 shots arent taken from the same place)
.
 
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Supreme

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iluvatar5150

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That's because you don't know what you're doing and obviously have little experience with a camera. Not only is such a thing possible, it's a fundamental part of composing a photograph.

You can even change those sizes in real-time. Do you know what a Dolly Zoom is? It's a camera trick that keeps the subject of the shot the same size and in focus while changing the apparent size & distance of objects in the foreground and background. It's accomplished by moving the camera towards the subject while zooming out at the same speed (or vice versa, moving away while zooming in). It was made popular by Alfred Hitchcock in Vertigo and, in a more recent example, was used in the first LOTR movie in the woods before the Nazgul first appeared.

I can't post links yet, but all you have to do is go on wikipedia and/or youtube and search for "dolly zoom" and you'll find dozens of examples of it, including tutorials on how to do it yourself.

ETA: Not that any of that is even relevant, because the objects in that video don't stay the same size as the camera zooms out, which is obvious to anyone who actually watches the video. Did you watch the video?

Shot 2: Even as the camera stops zooming out and is in a static position, the bridge keeps moving left. I don't know if walking bridges are a part of your reality - but they certainly aren't part of mine.

Seriously? A static position? That shot is from a helicopter. You can see everything in the foreground AND background moving.


No, they're not from the same place or the same distance - not remotely close. If you watch the video on youtube labeled "September Clues C", you can see that the shot on the left was taken from a considerable distance away. In fact, it was taken in Brooklyn (or possible on/above the East River). You can see the same angle by going to google maps, typing in "300 furman st Brooklyn NY", going down to street view, and looking across the river. You can tell this left-hand shot wasn't taken from Manhattan, because all of the buildings you see from street view are also visible in that shot and you wouldn't be able to get that angle from Manhattan.

Compare that with the extreme upward angle in the second/right-hand shot, which shows that it was taken from within a few blocks of the WTC.

Lastly, what is it, exactly, that you hope to prove by suggesting that these videos are fake? That the towers didn't burn and collapse? That they weren't struck by something?

It's amusing and disheartening to me that you'd think that the video people allegedly involved in this wouldn't be able to catch glaring errors like this. It's pretty obvious that you've never worked in any sort of media production.

-Dan.
 
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durangodawood

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These "fake picture" conspiracies are so transparently silly that they MUST HAVE been planted by the illuminati power structure to cast doubt upon all the other real conspiracies.
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Its "false flag" conspiracy-manufacture.
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If you swamp the dozen or so real conspiracies with a couple hundred goofy ones, then they all seem goofy.
.
 
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Nekoda

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You are talking about short distances in film media as opposed to long distances in static media (either from a snap shot, or a single frame from a film)

Keeping in mind that the 911 photo is not a snap - but simply a frame from a film..

The distances between the bridges in either shot are considerable in relation to the distance of those cameras to the WTC. The effects you are talking about in the first Nazful/Frodo and friends encounter in LOTR is relatively short. And - anyone watching knows it's an effect - it doesn't appear as normal photography.

These WTC shots are also NOT at street level - which means that even if one could create a "dolly zoom" still frame that shows no sign of it being a camera trick - the person moving towards the bridge would either be in a helicopter or running across a NY building rooftop in the direction of the bridge to get that shot.

So which is it do you suppose? Did the helicopter pilot speed his chopper a considerable distance forward while zooming out, or speed his chopper backward while zooming in to get these shots? What would be the reason for this doing special effects shots in a news cast on 911?

Again - the Verrazano Bridge is a considerable distance away from where the WTC stood. Here's another perspective:




Compared to another still frame from above street level on 911:




Notice also the double height of the bridge here, with it's doubling portion stacked on top of itself and for some reason colored in red. (???)

The film we were shown that day was tampered with.





Seriously? A static position? That shot is from a helicopter. You can see everything in the foreground AND background moving.

I suggest paying attention to the last 2-3 seconds of the shot. At that point WTC is approximately at the middle of the shot - while bridge keeps walking to the left.





Anyone can see that the frames shown are of approximately the same distance - whether the camera is physically closer or zoomed in, and they are from almost the exact same perspective. The plane in the left doesn't reflect the sun while the plane on the right does. The building on the left isn't present in the right hand photo. That's a problem, because it's absence shows that one of the photos (or both) are forgeries.

The second famous photo is also cropped. Here's a frame from the original:



Not only is there no green topped building anywhere near the WTC in this shot - I'll ask something September Clues pointed out in it's doco that I found extremely amusing:

The guy shooting the film - is he a dwarf? Or did he jump into a manhole just to get this camera angle at the best possible moment?


If you hadn't noticed, the gifs in the post this refers to are from the September Clues website. And catching glaring errors IS what that doco is all about - by a person who is quite familiar with media production.
 
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iluvatar5150

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It appears as an effect when it changes in real-time. It does not appear as an effect in still photography, despite all of the relative size/placement possibilities still being present. You tried to make the point that everything in the frame must zoom in or out equally, which is not necessarily the case.

Regardless, none of this matters, because as I pointed out, the objects in that shot did not stay the same size.


Neither, because the objects in the frame did NOT stay the same size. They changed.

Do you know what parallax is?


Can you provide a source for that video w/ the red top to the bridge? I can't find it.

I suggest paying attention to the last 2-3 seconds of the shot. At that point WTC is approximately at the middle of the shot - while bridge keeps walking to the left.

Yes, I watched it. EVERYTHING in that shot is moving, not just the bridge. The cameraman panned the camera to keep the WTC in the same spot in the frame (though at not the same size), but at the same time, everything else moved.

Regardless, why on earth would they have an animated bridge in a fake shot? That doesn't even make sense. Have you ever shot and edited video? Animating something like that is more work, not less.

Anyone can see that the frames shown are of approximately the same distance - whether the camera is physically closer or zoomed in, and they are from almost the exact same perspective.

No, they're not from the same perspective, and the fact that you can't see that speaks a great deal about your inability to objectively evaluate evidence. If you can't analyze a couple simple photographs, why should we listen to anything else you have to say?

The plane in the left doesn't reflect the sun while the plane on the right does. The building on the left isn't present in the right hand photo. That's a problem, because it's absence shows that one of the photos (or both) are forgeries.

No, it shows that you can't read, that you can't analyze a photo, and that you don't know how to use google.

That building with the green roof is The Trump Building at 40 Wall St, which is about 6 blocks southeast of the WTC (or roughly halfway across the island).

Also in that shot, you can see a number of other buildings between the camera and the Trump Building, which, given that the Trump building is almost directly in front of the WTC, means that the camera was somewhere to the southeast of the action.

Also in that shot, towards the bottom, you can see a shorter building that's sort of a reddish-brown color and then another, even shorter building in front of that, that's a beige color.

That beige building is 111 Wall St., which also abuts FDR drive. FDR Drive runs along the east side of Manhattan - to the east of it is the river.

So, the buildings you see in that shot span the entire width of Manhattan - from the WTC on the west to 111 Wall St on the east. There is no way to get that shot from Manhattan; it was shot from across the river in Brooklyn, over a mile away.

Compare that to your other shot:

The second famous photo is also cropped. Here's a frame from the original:

<I can't post images yet either>

Not only is there no green topped building anywhere near the WTC in this shot

Perfect. You just made my case. You see that Burger King sign on the left side of the image? There are only a few BK's in lower Manhattan (you can find them on BK's web site). This one is at 106 Liberty St, which is less than a block from the south tower.

Again, if you don't believe me, type that address into google maps and go down to street view. The sign and the facades all match.

These two pictures were not shot from similar locations or perspectives.

- I'll ask something September Clues pointed out in it's doco that I found extremely amusing:

The guy shooting the film - is he a dwarf? Or did he jump into a manhole just to get this camera angle at the best possible moment?

Where was this video from? Was it from the Naudet documentary? It's not uncommon at all for filmmakers to hold the camera low and use the pop-out display on the camera as the viewfinder instead of the eyepiece when wanting to get a low-angle shot.

Again, your example of "forgery" is a common photography/cinematography trick. Maybe you ought to take a class so you're not so easily duped.

If you hadn't noticed, the gifs in the post this refers to are from the September Clues website. And catching glaring errors IS what that doco is all about - by a person who is quite familiar with media production.

Is he? His web design skills wouldn't lead me to that conclusion. What are his qualifications? I can't find them on his web site.

-Dan.
 
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cow451

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I'm sorry, but we don't do cheap photoshop tricks.
 
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