What's with all the conspiracy theories?

iluvatar5150 · Aug 6, 2012

So, I'm new here (hi!), but I recognize some familiar faces from Crosswalk & Bible.org.

I was a pretty active participant in the current Events/Politics forums over there and while there were plenty of far right-wing conservatives with whom I disagreed, I don't recall the straight-up conspiracy folks (truthers, birthers, etc) ever having nearly the amount of traction as they do here.

Oddly, it seems like the two camps here are progressives and the conspiracy folks, with only a few regular conservatives stuck in the middle.

What gives?

-Dan.

Nekoda · Aug 6, 2012

iluvatar5150 said:
So, I'm new here (hi!), but I recognize some familiar faces from Crosswalk & Bible.org.

I was a pretty active participant in the current Events/Politics forums over there and while there were plenty of far right-wing conservatives with whom I disagreed, I don't recall the straight-up conspiracy folks (truthers, birthers, etc) ever having nearly the amount of traction as they do here.

Oddly, it seems like the two camps here are progressives and the conspiracy folks, with only a few regular conservatives stuck in the middle.

What gives?

-Dan.

Interesting labels. Anyone who doubts a story given by official news or government source is not a regular person, or a regular conservative?

Btw Dan. I bet your a conspiracy theorist and you don't even know it:

9/11: A Conspiracy Theory - Everything you ever wanted to know about the 9/11 in under 5 min - YouTube

Mystman · Aug 6, 2012

iluvatar5150 said:
So, I'm new here (hi!), but I recognize some familiar faces from Crosswalk & Bible.org.

I was a pretty active participant in the current Events/Politics forums over there and while there were plenty of far right-wing conservatives with whom I disagreed, I don't recall the straight-up conspiracy folks (truthers, birthers, etc) ever having nearly the amount of traction as they do here.

Oddly, it seems like the two camps here are progressives and the conspiracy folks, with only a few regular conservatives stuck in the middle.

What gives?

-Dan.

Posters like replying to the easily refutable nonsense instead of well-thought out opening posts. There are some birthers here, who got giant threads every time they came up with something new and ridiculous. I hope everyone knew that replying was completely pointless, that the birther was completely invulnerable to reason or rational thought, but that everyone replying was just doing so for their own entertainment.

Unfortunately, that can create an eco-system where well-thought-out opening posts get ignored in favor of the wild stuff, which is discouraging to people who like "sane" discussions, so some of them leave, causing a larger proportion of posters to be producers/fans of the conspiracy-theads, causing even more sanity-fans to leave, causing a larger proportion of insanity-threads, etc etc.

That said... at the moment the front page doesn't look that bad. At least the two 100+ reply-threads are actual discussion threads.

farmer joe · Aug 6, 2012

iluvatar5150 said:
So, I'm new here (hi!), but I recognize some familiar faces from Crosswalk & Bible.org.

I was a pretty active participant in the current Events/Politics forums over there and while there were plenty of far right-wing conservatives with whom I disagreed, I don't recall the straight-up conspiracy folks (truthers, birthers, etc) ever having nearly the amount of traction as they do here.

Oddly, it seems like the two camps here are progressives and the conspiracy folks, with only a few regular conservatives stuck in the middle.

What gives? -Dan.

Well either there is no such thing as a conspiracy, or people are trying to manipulate your beliefs. But that would be a conspiracy,also. Or there is the possibility that the official version on alot of stories is not true and we get all sorts of other possibilities being mentioned with most being wrong or some having some truths . When one knows that the story doesn't add up, but was never told the truth, how does one know what the truth really is? If you discover that you have been misled by some numerous times, when do you stop listening? It sure seems that all sides are doing alot of misleading. Hence the official version, and anyone doubting it being labeled a conspiracy theorist.

jayem · Aug 6, 2012

farmer joe said:
Well either there is no such thing as a conspiracy, or people are trying to manipulate your beliefs. But that would be a conspiracy,also. Or there is the possibility that the official version on alot of stories is not true and we get all sorts of other possibilities being mentioned with most being wrong or some having some truths . When one knows that the story doesn't add up, but was never told the truth, how does one know what the truth really is? If you discover that you have been misled by some numerous times, when do you stop listening? It sure seems that all sides are doing alot of misleading. Hence the official version, and anyone doubting it being labeled a conspiracy theorist.

It's one thing to question details. It's quite another to concoct an alternative reality of complex actions by multiple conspirators, substituted identities, planted false evidence, framed suspects, and unfounded causal connections. And all directed in apparent perfect secrecy by nefarious governmental or private interests. This is one of the 2 markers of a conspiracy theorist. The other is an extreme investment in the theory with an inability to accept any evidence to the contrary, no matter how well documented.

trunks2k · Aug 6, 2012

jayem said:
It's one thing to question details. It's quite another to concoct an alternative reality of complex actions by multiple conspirators, substituted identities, planted false evidence, framed suspects, and unfounded causal connections. And all directed in apparent perfect secrecy by nefarious governmental or private interests. This is one of the 2 markers of a conspiracy theorist. The other is an extreme investment in the theory with an inability to accept any evidence to the contrary, no matter how well documented.

Yep. Additionally certain people seem to find a conspiracy behind EVERY major event.

Paradoxum · Aug 6, 2012

Here is my biased opinion.

Perhaps once accepting some conspiracy theories becomes acceptable for a group (eg: Global Warming, evolution) it becomes easier to believe other conspiracies. If you believe one you are more likely to believe others.

durangodawood · Aug 6, 2012

trunks2k said:
Yep. Additionally certain people seem to find a conspiracy behind EVERY major event.

People WANT there to be a big story that connects all events into a meaningful narrative.
.
We are meaning addicts. If we cant find meaning, we'll invent it.
.

cow451 · Aug 6, 2012

iluvatar5150 said:
So, I'm new here (hi!), but I recognize some familiar faces from Crosswalk & Bible.org.

I was a pretty active participant in the current Events/Politics forums over there and while there were plenty of far right-wing conservatives with whom I disagreed, I don't recall the straight-up conspiracy folks (truthers, birthers, etc) ever having nearly the amount of traction as they do here.

Oddly, it seems like the two camps here are progressives and the conspiracy folks, with only a few regular conservatives stuck in the middle.

What gives?

-Dan.

Hey, Dan, welcome from another ex Bible.orger. My experience is that this forum planet is way bigger than what we had before. It was a bit overwhelming at first and took some getting used to. There seems to be more latitude here from the mods. Threads start one way and go to any number of rabbit trails. Duplicate and Zombie threads are common. Not that it is better or worse, but it is the nature of the beast.

That said, I think you are seeing a reflection of the US cultural climate. "Regular conservatives" are too bland for the "gotta have excitement 3.7 times per minute" world.

Conspiracies are attractive because they are exciting and provide simple answers to the complex and boring. An event being controlled by a few powerful people is way more interesting than figuring out how many factors and decisions become interconnected.

Don't get disheartened. A thick skin and a sense of humor will be required at all times.

Supreme · Aug 6, 2012

Conspiracy theories are more exciting than the regular version of events, which tend to be bland. Conspiracy theories are nuts and do deserve to be laughed out the window, but they are interesting and provide excitement.

durangodawood · Aug 6, 2012

The Bible outlines the greatest "conspiracy theory" of all.
.
A creator,
a plan,
an antagonist,
the creator sends an agent to Earth,
the antagonist gathers minions,
the plan unfolds,
the eventual triumph of the righteous.
.
(Not saying it isnt true.)
.

jayem · Aug 6, 2012

durangodawood said:
People WANT there to be a big story that connects all events into a meaningful narrative.
.
We are meaning addicts. If we cant find meaning, we'll invent it.
.

Our brains evolved as pattern-seeking engines. When you see the branches in a bush move, and birds suddenly fly off, and hear a rustling sound, it has survival value to think a dangerous predator is afoot, rather than attribute it all to the wind. Connecting the dots was favored by natural selection, even when no connection exists.

Sayen · Aug 6, 2012

Hey Dan! I always enjoyed your posts over on Crosswalk. Definitely more conspiracies here, and much less pruning of the topics when the post up. Feels like a much higher non-Christian population percentage as well.

Smidlee · Aug 6, 2012

jayem said:
Our brains evolved as pattern-seeking engines. When you see the branches in a bush move, and birds suddenly fly off, and hear a rustling sound, it has survival value to think a dangerous predator is afoot, rather than attribute it all to the wind. Connecting the dots was favored by natural selection, even when no connection exists.

That's a interesting conspiracy theory.

Illuminaughty · Aug 6, 2012

It's because I've been so busy conspiring with my Illuminati cohorts. We are legion. We are everywhere.

stillangela · Aug 6, 2012

I find some of them fascinating. All a conspiracy needs is about 10% truth, to grow legs. However, some of them seem pretty legit.

Illuminaughty · Aug 6, 2012

Conspiracies do happen but a lot the theories being passed around (birther, chemtrails, Shariah being implemented in the US, UN outlawing religion in the US, FEMA death camps, etc...) are tin foil hat city. A lot of them have some overarching single uber conspiracy that controls literally everything.

Blackwater Babe · Aug 6, 2012

What's with all the conspiracy theories?

Same as always;

1. People feel a need to explain tragic, random events. Thus a super secret cabal, directing tragedy behind the scenes, is somehow more comforting than the idea that bad things happen randomly, and can happen to anyone, at any time.

2. Disaffected people can feel better about themselves by a. Blaming their shortcommings on some sort of external enemy, and b. They get to feel superior towards all the "sheeple", because unlike them, they are the posessors of a deeper, fundamental truth.

3. People love a mystery and intrigue and the allure of "forbidden knowledge", even if they know its bogus. Which is why Discovery and History channels are so clutered up with shows with "secret" and "exposed" and "truth" and "code" in the title.

Pattern identification and confirmation bias do th rest.

Nekoda · Aug 6, 2012

Blackwater Babe said:
Same as always;

1. People feel a need to explain tragic, random events. Thus a super secret cabal, directing tragedy behind the scenes, is somehow more comforting than the idea that bad things happen randomly, and can happen to anyone, at any time.

2. Disaffected people can feel better about themselves by a. Blaming their shortcommings on some sort of external enemy, and b. They get to feel superior towards all the "sheeple", because unlike them, they are the posessors of a deeper, fundamental truth.

That's some super strange reasoning.

Take #1) If this were true, then such people would also feel the "need" to "explain away" earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, nuclear plant failures (Japan) and every other catastrophe as yet another piece in the "secret cabal's" weaponry - and generally - as a conspiracy.

But most people I know believe specific theories contrary to specific versions of particular events only - and they do not do this for "comfort". In fact - the opposite - they often feel the pressure from the majority of their peers who have subscribed to the official story - and are mocked, made fun of attacked verbally etc for their views.

2) I don't know anyone who blames their own personal shortcomings on conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" staring Mel Gibson who plays a nutcase who believes every conspiracy theory out there - but not in the people I have met. Most of them are what we would call ordinary people who get on with their lives and aren't looking over their shoulder every 2 seconds or putting locks on their fridges.

As for "feeling superior" motive - that would suggest taking on, knowingly, a fantasy, even though it will cause one to be ostracized by the majority - simply for ego gratification. Gee - I can think of a lot better and more satisfying ways to combat personal insecurity.

Blackwater Babe · Aug 6, 2012

Nekoda said:
That's some super strange reasoning.

Take #1) If this were true, then such people would also feel the "need" to "explain away" earthquakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, nuclear plant failures (Japan) and every other catastrophe as yet another piece in the "secret cabal's" weaponry - and generally - as a conspiracy.

Right. And indeed they do. After every earthquake there's some idiot talking about HAARP earthquake machines, after every cyclone, its HAARP weather machines.

HAARP Caused Japan Earthquake Tsunami 2011 | NowPublic News Coverage
This Video PROVES that the U.S. Government CAUSED Katrina, the December 2004 Tsnaumi that killed 300 thousand in Indonesia AND is USING a WMD called H.A.A.R.P. on the the WORLD CITIZEN! - YouTube

But most people I know believe specific theories contrary to specific versions of particular events only - and they do not do this for "comfort". In fact - the opposite - they often feel the pressure from the majority of their peers who have subscribed to the official story - and are mocked, made fun of attacked verbally etc for their views.

Subconsciously, they find it more comforting for there to be a reason behind a tragedy.

2) I don't know anyone who blames their own personal shortcomings on conspiracy theories. Yeah, maybe in the movie "Conspiracy Theory" staring Mel Gibson who plays a nutcase who believes every conspiracy theory out there - but not in the people I have met. Most of them are what we would call ordinary people who get on with their lives and aren't looking over their shoulder every 2 seconds or putting locks on their fridges.

Right, I didn't say all conspiracy theorists meet all these criteria, did I? Myb but you're defensive. You realise people have experiences different to your own, right? Just in this and other threads, you seem to have real difficulty accepting that not everyone experiences and responds to things the exact way you do.

As for "feeling superior" motive - that would suggest taking on, knowingly, a fantasy, even though it will cause one to be ostracized by the majority - simply for ego gratification. Gee - I can think of a lot better and more satisfying ways to combat personal insecurity.

Again, it can be subconscious. Once you start espousing a position and feeling good about it, you'll keep doing it. And when people try to argue against what's making you feel good, you defend it, more and more fiercly. Its self reinforcing.

But hey. If you think I'm wrong, why do YOU think there are all these conspiracy theories?

What's with all the conspiracy theories?

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