What's the difference?

Skilletdude said:

Between a Messianic Jew and a Christian? Is it a Jew who became a Christian or...?

(Oh, and sort of off topic but if I wanted to learn hebrew, how would be the best way to do it? I'm guessing it's more beneficial to learn modern hebrew over classic? I've been kind of interested in the hebrew language for a while but it doesn't seem to seem very practical to learn around here. Still interested in it though.)

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Personally, I believe that the term 'Messianic' refers to all those who strive to follow the faith that the apostles, prophets, and the Messiah Himself have - inregards to Acts 11:26 the original word being Messianic (or similar to that). A torah observant Messianic. However, if someone calls themselves 'Messianic Jew' to me, that means more someone who was a Jew by faith or a Jew by birth and has come to Messianism. I don't believe there to be any such thing as a Gentile Believer or a Gentile Messianic. It's an oxymoron. Some folks are Jews with a bit of Christian flavour to them; others are Christian with a bit of Jewish flavour, and then there are the inbetween.
My faith is more 'liberal' (for the lack of a better term) than most. I follow torah however don't keep the 'Jewish' traditions. However, there's not much I agree with in terms of Christianity. Usually when someone says Christian, it's assumed that you don't believe in torah's relevance, you keep Christmas, Easter, Sunday Sabbath, and such. Messianism seeks to find the origin of the faith and going back to the Hebrew heritage and believe in the relevance of torah. So yeah, that's what I'd put down as the real difference between Christianity and Messianism.

That's how I see it. I know that views vary with folks but anyway.

As for the last part, I really don't know. My bro and sister in law are learning Hebrew but I don't know! There are plenty of folks on here who can answer that part for you!

Skilletdude said:

(Oh, and sort of off topic but if I wanted to learn hebrew, how would be the best way to do it? I'm guessing it's more beneficial to learn modern hebrew over classic? I've been kind of interested in the hebrew language for a while but it doesn't seem to seem very practical to learn around here. Still interested in it though.)

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Look up or call some local Synagogues and tell them you are a Non-Jew (unless you are Jewish) who would like to take Hebrew classes. If they offer them, they shouldn't have any problem with you taking the class.

Skilletdude said:

Between a Messianic Jew and a Christian? Is it a Jew who became a Christian or...?

(Oh, and sort of off topic but if I wanted to learn hebrew, how would be the best way to do it? I'm guessing it's more beneficial to learn modern hebrew over classic? I've been kind of interested in the hebrew language for a while but it doesn't seem to seem very practical to learn around here. Still interested in it though.)

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Terms are very strange things.

Technically, all Jews are "Messianic" because they all await the advent of the Messiah, and the belief in a Messiah is a Jewish belief.

But the term "Messianic Jew" has come to mean a Jewish believer in Jesus, yet in previous times the term was the more accurate "Hebrew Christian" or "Jewish Christian"

Many Christians who try to find a Christian faith that has an emphasis on the "Jewishness" of Jesus and the Christian faith call themselves Messianic, whether Jewish or Gentile, but the truth be told it is really a Gentile movement when it is outside of Israel. In the West it's a mixed bag with very good teachers and complete nutcases as well. Discernment needed.

Now, many non-Jews have taken the name "Messianic Jew" and created a kind of Rabbinic interpretation of Christianity (as seen by Anders below) which rejects both Christianity and Judaism as false religions. This is of course bcoming popular in the West, but is very unpopular amongst Jews.

Skilletdude said:

Between a Messianic Jew and a Christian? Is it a Jew who became a Christian or...?

(Oh, and sort of off topic but if I wanted to learn hebrew, how would be the best way to do it? I'm guessing it's more beneficial to learn modern hebrew over classic? I've been kind of interested in the hebrew language for a while but it doesn't seem to seem very practical to learn around here. Still interested in it though.)

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Well, ANE language expert Dr. Michael L. Brown rightfully concludes there should be no difference between the terms Christianity and Messianic. They mean the same thing.

So I kind of look at the Messianic Jewish movement as separate from the movement set up by Constantine. In other words, there is Christianity, and what I term "Nicene" Christianity.

hamashiachagape said:

So I kind of look at the Messianic Jewish movement as separate from the movement set up by Constantine. In other words, there is Christianity, and what I term "Nicene" Christianity.

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Constantine did not "set up" a "movement", for goodness' sakes. He legalized a religion and brought in nominalism, and nothing changed in regards dogma when compared to the Church previously during his era. BTW- from what I have seen in your posts and attitudes, your beliefs are in many fundamental respects completely contradictory in many places to ante-Nicene (eg. pre-Constantinian era) Christianity. How then can you equate your beliefs with that of the ante-Nicene church????

Skilletdude said:

Between a Messianic Jew and a Christian? Is it a Jew who became a Christian or...

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Jews are Old Covenant Rabbinic. (Judaism)

Christians are New Covenant accepting the New Testatment gospel(s). (Christianity)

ContraMundum said:

Terms are very strange things.

But the term "Messianic Jew" has come to mean a Jewish believer in Jesus, yet in previous times the term was the more accurate "Hebrew Christian" or "Jewish Christian"

Many Christians who try to find a Christian faith that has an emphasis on the "Jewishness" of Jesus and the Christian faith call themselves Messianic, whether Jewish or Gentile, but the truth be told it is really a Gentile movement when it is outside of Israel. In the West it's a mixed bag with very good teachers and complete nutcases as well. Discernment needed.

Now, many non-Jews have taken the name "Messianic Jew" and created a kind of Rabbinic interpretation of Christianity (as seen by Anders below) which rejects both Christianity and Judaism as false religions. This is of course bcoming popular in the West, but is very unpopular amongst Jews.

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that pretty much sums it up

Labels....

One would hope the difference is only as much as that between Pepsi and Coca-Cola.

However it's more complicated but not so much that 'checking the ingredients' would give a simple answer.

Norbert L said:

Labels....
However it's more complicated but not so much that 'checking the ingredients' would give a simple answer.

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ha, i like the way you phrased it!
labels are decieving
There are Jews as a race of people.
There are jews as proclaimed as such by Rabbinut.
I seen some perfectly jewish jews with jewish mothers, jewish fathers and jewish grand parents being declared Non jews.
Converted jews. Its like naturalised US citizen,almost the same thing, but cant become president So in some regard to some people its still a second class "jew"

Secular jews, Messinic Jews ,Christian Jews, Messianic Gentiles ( "Messsianic"- jew or gentile- seem to be more of a description of a denominational preference then anything else). And so on.

Norbert L said:

Labels....

One would hope the difference is only as much as that between Pepsi and Coca-Cola.

However it's more complicated but not so much that 'checking the ingredients' would give a simple answer.

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I vote with this guy!!!
MJ (or M-just plain messianic to clarify some are Jewish and some are not....) is just another sect/denomination of Christianity AND another sect of Judaism, mixed together and given a reallllly cool name

2000 years ago it was considered a sect of Judaism, if its rejected today thats not because the MJs feel the need to be separated, but the Jewish majority do feel that MJs, although they are ascribing to Jewish tradition and Torah life style, dont measure up because of their belief in Messiah Yeshua.....even though their ancestors were accepted as a sect of Judaism 2000 years ago

As a denomination of Christianity they do well as well, Christianity has no problems see MJ teaching as the Hebrew roots of Christianity and open their arms to MJs... and most MJs (95% if I were to throw out a number for fun) return the confidence.

There is a fringe that dont like the association with Christianity as they feel Christianity has some major flaws in the fact that they did walk away from the Torah life and Jewish tradition of their ancestors and want to distance themselves from Christianity because of that(and Im sure there are other points of contention as well....)

but truth be told (and IMO at least) we couldn't be more suited to be joined to both and form maybe the only solid connection of Yeshua to his people seen in this age

as imperfect as we are anyway

Tishri
I kinda wish we could go back and regain the title originally given to this sect of Judaism, the Way. It would end a lot of confusion if we could just say that we are That Way spoken of in Acts and we're The Way we are bacause of Yeshua. Don't you think?