• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

What's the difference between Satan and Lucifer?

ForChristJesus

Junior Member
Oct 20, 2013
196
14
✟22,877.00
Faith
Christian
Unfortunately, a lot of people have some very bad information.

The ones who are accurate are, as follows:

  1. ViaCrucis
  2. knee-v
A study on the Hebrew is all it takes to verify the truth of their words.

Did Jesus reveal himself to these people?

Did Jesus reveal the truth to these people concerning this matter?

The same people you mentioned are those who would place liturgy above scripture and church dogmas above scripture.

So to whom are you witnessing to and about who?

You should be witnessing about Jesus and what he has revealed to you and not what men have opined to you and others.

These two you mentioned are men and fallible might I add because they lean not on the cornerstone as the refuge but upon church leadership and their fallible dogmas.

Where is your bias friend?

Has Jesus revealed himself to you and shown you his truth.

I as a witness can say he has revealed himself to me and he has shown me his truth and he has shown me also where he had smitten Satan and who Satan is and when he has been released to decieve the world for the last and final time.

Do you have Jesus in your heart or do you have the opinion of those who say they have Jesus.

The relationship must be with the living God and not your church, your fellow men or church hierarchy. If you don't have a one to one relationship with Christ and rely outwardly into the world for truth, then you will not find the truth of The Lord.

Satan is a real person and those that use play on words in Hebrew to make scripture say things that it doesn't are the enemies of Christ,

The book of Isaiah chapter 14 is written in a way throughout the whole chapter that is describing lucifer as a real and tangible person who amongst the ranks of the angels wanted to be equal to the Angel of The Lord, the Living Word Christ Jesus.

Satan is described as a real character pertaining to a real and tangible person who started the great controversy that manifested into the two sides of good and evil.

Read the whole chapter 14 of Isaiah before you go beating your chest for these two fallible men.
 
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married

Please define the Liturgy.
 
Upvote 0

ForChristJesus

Junior Member
Oct 20, 2013
196
14
✟22,877.00
Faith
Christian
Please define the Liturgy.

Stop deflecting the issue.

Why are you hiding Satan as if he doesn't even exist as a real and tangible person?

If Satan turned out to be the leader of the biggest church in the world, will you hide him? (Cryptic message only meant for you)
 
Upvote 0

ForChristJesus

Junior Member
Oct 20, 2013
196
14
✟22,877.00
Faith
Christian
Satan aka Lucifer is coming as a real and tangible person on earth in the same way the one and only God Christ Jesus came as a real and tangible person.

Satan aka Lucifer will try to counterfeit Christ's first advent by saying he is Christ the SECOND COMING.

We are going to war against any manifested messiah on earth because he will be Satan incarnate.
 
Upvote 0

yeshuasavedme

Senior Veteran
May 31, 2004
12,811
779
✟112,705.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No he won't.
That is a myth.
He is "anti-Christ". He does not pretend to be Christ, but denies the Father and the Son, which is the spirit of Anti-Christ and is what Islam does and is what the man of sin does. He opposes Christ and exalts himself against all that is called "god"; the man of sin does not come in the name of Jesus, nor does he come claiming to come in the spirit of Christ. The man of sin does not claim to be the Jewish Messiah, but the Islamic Mahdi -however you spell it.

Yes, there are many who come in Jesus' name claiming "I am Christ", and believers have been duped who do not listen to the voice of the shepherd, and many have died following false messiahs, but the Man of sin who is coming is the Islamic Mahdi and does not claim to be Christ in flesh, and denies Christ, and denies the Son and the Father, and exalts himself above all that is called "god".
 
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Stop deflecting the issue.

Why are you hiding Satan as if he doesn't even exist as a real and tangible person?

If Satan turned out to be the leader of the biggest church in the world, will you hide him? (Cryptic message only meant for you)
Deflecting the issue? I was not the one who brought up the Liturgy. i was simply wondering if you even have a clue as to what the liturgy is as you are making statements about it. Psst. I belong to the church. I'm not even sure what you mean by the biggest as there is but one Church. (non-cryptic message intended for any who believe otherwise.)
So do you know what you're speaking of or are you just parroting what some hate preacher told you? (Whoops1 I may have exposed something I'm accused of hiding)

There are six things which the Lord hates,
seven which are an abomination to him:
haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
and hands that shed innocent blood,
a heart that devises wicked plans,
feet that make haste to run to evil,
a false witness who breathes out lies,
and a man who sows discord among brothers
 
Upvote 0

Knee V

It's phonetic.
Sep 17, 2003
8,417
1,741
43
South Bend, IN
✟115,823.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Stop deflecting the issue.

Why are you hiding Satan as if he doesn't even exist as a real and tangible person?

If Satan turned out to be the leader of the biggest church in the world, will you hide him? (Cryptic message only meant for you)

No one is "hiding Satan". What some of us are saying is that one particular passage is not about Satan. There are plenty of other passages in the Scriptures that deal with Satan and the reality of his existence. And any cursory study of Orthodox beliefs would show that we believe that he is a very real individual.
 
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Without a doubt. Very real and very evident to be real.
 
Upvote 0

MoreCoffee

Repentance works.
Jan 8, 2011
29,860
2,841
Near the flying spaghetti monster
✟65,348.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
There is a long tradition of treating the Lucifer passage as allegorically relating to Satan. If the original post intends to draw on that allegorical sense of scripture then fair enough but the plain and literal sense of the passage is about the king of Babylon (Isa 14:4).
 
Reactions: yeshuasavedme
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married

Now that I can agree with.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Did Jesus reveal himself to these people?

Not necessary; they have the right scholarship, and as someone who has studied the history of the topic, I know for a fact they are right.

Is this an attempt to question their Christianity because they are right and your opinion is not on this issue?

Did Jesus reveal the truth to these people concerning this matter?

I ditto my immediate above.

The same people you mentioned are those who would place liturgy above scripture and church dogmas above scripture.

Correction: they base their liturgy and dogmas on interpretations that are far more orthodox, historic, and classical than yours'.

So to whom are you witnessing to and about who?

The truth, to those who wish to learn.

You should be witnessing about Jesus and what he has revealed to you and not what men have opined to you and others.

Then I guess that eliminates any opinions from your handle as well.

These two you mentioned are men and fallible might I add because they lean not on the cornerstone as the refuge but upon church leadership and their fallible dogmas.

They are right because the evidence says so. Tell us; what is the actual definition of the word "Lucifer" in Latin? How was it used by Latin-speaking people of the time? What are the words used in Hebrew and in the Greek Septuagint? What is the actual context of the passage?

The factual answers to these questions direct us to the fact that their posts are correct.

Where is your bias friend?

Actual verifiable fact over seeming Montanism...

Has Jesus revealed himself to you and shown you his truth.

Montanism indeed...

I as a witness can say he has revealed himself to me and he has shown me his truth and he has shown me also where he had smitten Satan and who Satan is and when he has been released to decieve the world for the last and final time.

...and an illogical Fallacy of Appealing to Force combined with the Fallacy of Appealing to Pity. A completely null and void argument (the whole thing is) without any real substance of proof.

<snip>

In other words, no proof offered and, because the truth isn't liked, the rest of us must be duped by the Devil. Whatever; I'm not interested in unorthodox theology.

We are right and we are freed by the truth of it. Nothing more need be said. All are welcome to the truth; disagreement can only lead to more poor, unorthodox, non-historic, and in this case, non-Biblical theology.
 
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
PaladinValer,
Don't you know it is unfair to bother us with facts? you are supposed to question his Christianity and pull out the spiritually superior enlightened wildcard like he did did.
At least if you were to happen to be wrong (which I know you are not) you didn't drag Jesus down into the mud with you. Saying He told you and ending up wrong is calling Him a liar in my opinion.
 
Upvote 0

PaladinValer

Traditional Orthodox Anglican
Apr 7, 2004
23,587
1,245
44
Myrtle Beach, SC
✟30,305.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others

Indeed.
 
Upvote 0

prodromos

Senior Veteran
Site Supporter
Nov 28, 2003
24,247
14,790
60
Sydney, Straya
✟1,497,693.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
The spelling is different
They don't share any of the same letters either!
Only one of them is an anagram of "Santa"
Only one of them (not the same one) is an anagram of "lice fur"
Together, they are an anagram of "fanatics rule" (among many others)
Neither of them is a strong password
 
Upvote 0

Rev Randy

Sometimes I pretend to be normal
Aug 14, 2012
7,410
643
Florida,USA
✟32,653.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married

I perceive you do the Jumble in the Sunday Paper.
 
Upvote 0