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What you aren't being told about astronomy

Warden_of_the_Storm

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I did not specify any particular one.

But you said that a scientific paper said what you said. If you do not give the name of the paper, it suggest one of two things:
  1. You have either forgotten the name of the paper, which then puts the onus on you to find it to present it or
  2. You are just lying.
So it's one or the other. As they say on the playground, put up or shut up.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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In this forum, I never pretend. I don't have to.
If you know something I do not know, I will beg you to tell me.

Show me something you know, but I may not. There has to be something like that.

You have done nothing to suggest that you are an academic of any sort. All of your posts, here and in other thread, where you try to 'teach' people simply shows people that you're nothing but an armchair academic. And a very poor one at that.
 
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RickG

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A bunch of them. It is a type of study.
Right. But people use individual case to generalize into a population character . That is very common way people drew conclusions.

No, you said "For example, a paper showed two similar bones, and said one evolved into another.
What kind of evidence is that? It is not scientific at all.
"

That is very specific to a single paper. What paper is that? I am very adamant about this because I am more than sure that a paper published in a credible peer review scientific journal would not present a statement as you presented it. It appears you are taking something out of context from said paper. That is why I want to see the paper and discuss its content and context.
 
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Astrophile

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On the other hand, perhaps you're right and I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps I should try to learn about cladistics. Still, the essential point is that we share common ancestors with monkeys, whatever we call those ancestors.
 
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Astrophile

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Are you saying that the succession of fossils records the events of a single day, or at most of two days?

Are you saying that the Ordovician system, which has a maximum thickness of at least 12 km, was deposited, with its trilobites and graptolites, etc. during one part of a day; that the Jurassic system (maximum thickness of 13.4 km) was deposited, with its ammonites, ichthyosaurs, plesiosaurs, etc. on the same day or on the next day; and that the Eocene series (maximum thickness of 9.1 km) was deposited, with its teleost fishes, primitive whales, etc. was deposited within two days of the Ordovician?

This is a real question, not a rhetorical one. Can you give me an answer?
 
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Loudmouth

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On the other hand, perhaps you're right and I'm wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. Perhaps I should try to learn about cladistics. Still, the essential point is that we share common ancestors with monkeys, whatever we call those ancestors.

The problem comes from using non-evolutionary terms to describe an evolutionary tree. Terms such as monkey, ape, fish, and reptile are what we call paraphyletic:



A group should include an ancestor and all of its descendants, not just some of them. This is why primate , amniote, and gnathostomata are better than monkey, reptile, and fish, respectively.

Instead of trying to force paraphyletic terms into becoming monophyletic terms, perhaps we should just use the monophyletic terms.
 
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Astrophile

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Where does the organic material in the comet come from?

Probably from the solar nebula, and before that from the molecular cloud that the Sun and the planets formed from?

You said that we do not know.
But the creation story does suggest a reasonable answer. They came from plants.

I am speechless. Can you explain how this idea works?
 
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RickG

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I've never thought about it that way but it makes a huge amount of sense.
 
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juvenissun

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OK, I shut up.
 
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juvenissun

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No it is not.
 
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juvenissun

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I never said a DAY is 24 hrs as we know it.
 
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juvenissun

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Probably from the solar nebula, and before that from the molecular cloud that the Sun and the planets formed from?

I am speechless. Can you explain how this idea works?

The key point: If organic molecules existed in the nebula, where does it come from and how long could it last without been destroy by cosmic ray? The answers are: WE DO NOT KNOW. Now imagine a piece of wood chip floated in the nebula, what could happen to it?
 
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RickG

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No it is not.

There is no way in the English language for the statement: "For example, a paper showed two similar bones, and said one evolved into another", to indicate anything other than a single paper. You are citing something specific within that paper. With you still making the claim and refusal to share that paper, I can conclude to nothing other than you just made it up. Or perhaps, it is just an obfuscation to distract our attention away from the original challenge for you to explain the fossil record contained in sedimentary strata without evolution using science and logic. We are still waiting for you scientific presentation.
 
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Astrophile

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The key point: If organic molecules existed in the nebula, where do they come from and how long could they last without been destroyed by cosmic rays? The answers are: WE DO NOT KNOW.

First, astronomers have discovered 194 interstellar and circumstellar molecules, fifteen of which have ten or more atoms (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_interstellar_and_circumstellar_molecules). Second, we can actually see interstellar molecular clouds, as dark nebulae. As you can see from the attached images, these dark nebulae are opaque; radiation cannot penetrate through them, so their molecules are protected from destruction. As I understand it, the molecules are adsorbed onto interstellar dust grains, which eventually become parts of comets or asteroids.

Now imagine a piece of wood chip floated in the nebula, what could happen to it?
I don't understand this. How would wood chips get into an interstellar cloud? They must have been part of a plant, but there are no plants in interstellar space, or even on any planet other than the Earth. Remember that the planets formed from the solar nebula, so there were no life-bearing planets to provide wood chips or any organic matter to the nebula.

Also, interstellar molecular clouds have masses of thousands or even millions of solar masses (up to a trillion Earth masses); it would take more than a planet's worth of wood chips to supply the observed quantities of organic molecules.

 
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juvenissun

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Of course it is obviously a common way, in any language.
 
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juvenissun

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First, how much organic molecules in the clouds?
Second, BEFORE the molecules are adsorbed and protected, what is the chance for an organic molecule to survive?

There may be plants that already exist before the planet was destroyed by the star.

To make the point simple: the organic material embedded in comets must have been a larger group of molecules, rather than smaller group of molecules before joined the comet. Gravitational attraction works very slowly. most organic material should be destroyed in space very quickly.
 
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juvenissun

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More obfuscation. We are still waiting for you to explain the fossil record without evolution using science and logic.

Even evolution can not explain it.
Creation (non-scientific), can.
 
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Hoghead1

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Then you need to explain how it can, Juvenissun. Otherwise, you are wasting our time here. This is your turn at the mike. If you have nothing to say, no way to support your argument's, then you shod stand down and try and learn from others.
 
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