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You should read a little Real Live Preacher. Good stuff, occasional naughty words.
Or just the correspondence between SS Jerome and Augustine.
Erwin, Michael does have a point. I was going to put this in a PM but I think it needs to be said in public.
I appreciate your desire to bring in a wide range of voices and opinions, but you ca
When you changed the rules without consulting anyone, you showed the members and staff of CF that you will take all the work we do and throw it in the garbage if it doesn't mesh with your vision of what CF should be.
It is very difficult to build on ground that has been shown to be unstable. Until you communicate to the members and staff that you know what the vision is and are going to stick with it, you will have a hard time getting people to trust that their work will mean something. CF is totally under your control, and you need to set the boundaries for the work we do.
When you set those boundaries, you will make a lot of people upset. No matter what you do, you will have people telling you that you're betraying Christ. That's the price you pay when you try to further God's kingdom. But you need to stop trying to please us, and worry only and solely about pleasing God. Make some decisions, and stick with them. Otherwise, CF will have nothing but chaos.
Alan
I agree with Alan.
All I want to know is where the place stands. I know what I want. Everyone knows what they want. I am honestly not sure on exactly what you want.
No answer will please all.
But Erwin. Whatever you decide needs to be what you decide. If people are going to work on a vision and help they need to know that vision and that it is stable. Not unchanging but stable.
I know what I want. But I don't own this place. I'm not saying don't take opinions into account. But opinions are all over the place.
The staff could likely pick out three or four threads that have a wide range of what people want and you could look at those for an honest cross section. Look at that for a pulse but really just decide what it is you want. Where you think God is leading. I don't know if I would agree. But...then everyone would know where they stood and if CF is a place they want to be.
For some it will not be. For some it will. But right now...no one can tell what it is or will be. And that should not be Wiki'd. It should be stated.
Why cant we have a heavy emphasis on both??
CF Leadership said:The objectives of Christian Forums have not changed since it's inception. They remain:
(1) to provide a safe haven online for Christians;
(2) to bring together Christians of all denominations; and
(3) to establish a Christian presence on the Web so that non-Christians may be outreached to.
Christian Forums has seen many people come to know the Lord through its ministry.
About Christian Forums (emphasis added)
concerning the wiki, I'll be frank, I don't even know what the rules are anymore. There is no real way to know. We have "votes" about them but no one really agrees on who is allowed to vote where.
So really, we are forced to mod by personal judgement, which is disasterous.
What is ironic is that Erwin did that already. He did that with New CF, but there was such a cry of "unfair" that he, I suppose, is doubting himself and his vision.
I believe in the vision, just not the mechanics of it. We need firm guidelines on how to implement the vision. We do not need to change the vision itself.
Lisa
Erwin, I love this site. I have put a lot into it over the last four years. It's been a blessing to me.
Some of the changes that have happened are good, but some need to go. Here's what I think needs to be done:
-Make the rules concrete. No more Wiki.
-Bring back the Niccene Creed.
-Make Staff Christian Only
What I like about the new site:
-Non-Christians can post with the Christians.
-The transparency (although I wouldn't mind a private forum for staff, it's not neccasary. PM's work. This way all members can see what happens in the super sekrit staff forum).
That's just my $.02
I could easily ask you the same question. After all, you led the campaign calling for Erwin to take a more active role in directing the site. It looked to me like Erwin did exactly what you claimed to want--he stepped in and made a definitive statement that made his vision for CF clear.And I am asking if you had the same concern when he changed the things I mentioned. Or are you concerned when the changes go in a direction you do not prefer?
Steve, WftE
Naw, if we're going that route, we could just as easily say his first vision was the one, and he altered it because he got tired of the arguing and complaining in DR and at IIDB.What is ironic is that Erwin did that already. He did that with New CF, but there was such a cry of "unfair" that he, I suppose, is doubting himself and his vision.
Standing for ghettos and exclusionary principles is not standing for what is right.Maybe cause they are reading your signature! lol...
Lets not make it more confusing. Please ! Take the victory on the poll for what ever side and give them each what they want. Make two sites no one would care about that since I would bet dollars to donuts that if you did that only one would end up being the successful one. That being the way it was. What ever you do keep it simple and do not try to blend the two the mix could be more of a mess.Good question.
One possible solution that has been proposed already is to run 2 sites, one that is open, another that is Christians-only, based on the same membership data.
It's entirely possible. The previous version of CF is very similar, with 2 sections, one open and one close. The aim of the new system was to establish something like that but with members agreeing to do it themselves, but it hasn't worked out over the past month.
The ultimate aim would be to keep the good things of the recent changes such as moderator transparency, and see if we can formalise the wiki usage a bit more in a way that is acceptable (the wiki collaborative process is still the best process to get consensus for rules and guidelines).
There is no question that CF has 2 large groups of membership together, and to be honest, that is fantastic, because not many sites on the Internet are able to bring these 2 groups of people together into a place for discussion.
It is possible that Option 1 and Option 2 can be combined together into a middle ground of Option 3 since this is what the poll is really showing us (and I had hoped that the current CF setup would have been the Option 3, since it has elements of both, but apparently not). So the question is, if that's the answer (and I'm not saying it is at this stage), what would Option 3 look like?
It's a question that's does not have an easy answer.
Cool beans . Thanks. That was not too bad so far... LOLNow you're up to speed, Sun.
Steve
In the old system because of posting restrictions you had to be able to appropriately classify the *person*. In the new system, you only have to be able to appropriately classify the *post*.
That is only partially true. True, the Nicene Creed was the standard for claiming an orthodox Christian icon, but nothing got said unless someone posted something that did not fall in line with the creed. If someone did not adhere to all aspects of the creed, but did not post anything regarding the aspects that they did not agree with, nothing was said.
The penalty for posting something contrary to the creed was in effect being banned from "Christians Only" forums. True or False?
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