What would option 3 look like

intricatic said:

They're both equally important. Like understanding it's not right to blatantly insult people, without that understanding, you can't put into practice the idea of not blatantly insulting people.

Click to expand...

Too many people see a challenge to their comfort zones to be an insult.

Purifying FLAME said:

Too many people see a challenge to their comfort zones to be an insult.

Click to expand...

I'm making a simple statement based on real world situations in order to make a point about what orthopraxy and orthodoxy consist of. You can't have one without the other, or the one becomes meaningless.

Purifying FLAME said:

It's only like that right now because it is the beginning of the system. Given time, things will settle down. You don't build a Castle over night.

Click to expand...

Hullo

The thing is, it'll settle down because people will get bored with, or burnt out from, all the fighting. Have you seen how many reports are being created by wiki discussions? Look at your thread, for example. It got ridiculous and for some people became about I'M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG DOESN'T EVEN MATTER IF WE'RE ON TOPIC I SAY THE SKY IS GREEN AND IF YOU DISAGREE YOU'RE REMOVING MY RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY... It was nuts.

Not everyone has the stomach to stick around in threads that get so silly, or threads that are painful and flamey.

So the people who will ultmately get to decide are the ones who have stamina, or who were loud - either in voice, or numbers - enough to get their idea in place.

That isn't to say what's currently there should be scrapped, because people put a lot of work into it and that needs to be acknowledged, but continuing on in this vein would be crazy. None of us even know where we are. Staff don't know what's what in the ever-shifting world of wiki, so they're having to waste time finding out while more and more reports are coming in.

Some reports are going left unread because staff are so over-wrought and over-worked. Realistically, the board simply can't function like that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to GreenMunchkin again.

Erwin said:

I think you have a point there Michael.

Click to expand...

Yes he does but is that taking the high road or the low road out of the situation? Sorry Dr. Loh but I had to ask, I had always thought of you as a fair minded individual with the genuine interests of the website and it's members coming first for you.

Hi,
I am still rather new to this site but I want to express a few thoughts.
I came here because I was looking for Christian fellowship. I am disabled and am not always able to get to church.

I live in a very rural area and often it is an extra 40 miles for someone to take me to church--so I do not get the fellowship I crave.
Thus--I came here and while I admit that I have no clue as to most of the inner workings here--I almost gave up when I first joined-- what with all the restrictions before I could enjoy many of the features.

But I hung in because of the people I had met.
I was alarmed by Erwins orginal message of the site changing and am a bit confused now as that announcement basically said it was going to happen regardless.

Now there are polls and this and that asking what we think.
So here goes--my newbie humble opinion is I hope this site stays Christian based on the foundation of John 3:16.

I spent some time in what was the non-Christian area but found that there was no constructive debate or sincere questions from those claiming to be athiests. No, it was more of the non-believers making fun of and denouncing Christianity and any other faith.

So I shot back to the safty of the Christian area. That brings me to what for me and the granddaughter I brought with me--the key--safty. I need fellowship with Christians--I dont care what denomination they are--only that they share a love of Jesus.

I also frequent the Golden eagles and had my first run in with what I suppose was one of the changes--not sure---but an 18yr old moderator in training popping into a thread of seniors suggesting in a sarcastic manner that we are not devoted enough is not going to be something I will be able to deal with.

In closing--I have already begun to reduce my time here due to the changes that the original message claimed but I am waiting and hoping for the best before I decided once and for all.

Im not sure why this is so hard--this is either a Christian site or it is not. I there is going to be a safe Christian area then I will stay but if there isnt I will not. I have a kid here with me and thus a responsibility to her.

Just my 2 cents...
Bubbi (praying for the best because I dont want to have to leave)

Bubbi said:

Hi,
I am still rather new to this site but I want to express a few thoughts.
I came here because I was looking for Christian fellowship. I am disabled and am not always able to get to church.

I live in a very rural area and often it is an extra 40 miles for someone to take me to church--so I do not get the fellowship I crave.
Thus--I came here and while I admit that I have no clue as to most of the inner workings here--I almost gave up when I first joined-- what with all the restrictions before I could enjoy many of the features.

But I hung in because of the people I had met.
I was alarmed by Erwins orginal message of the site changing and am a bit confused now as that announcement basically said it was going to happen regardless.

Now there are polls and this and that asking what we think.
So here goes--my newbie humble opinion is I hope this site stays Christian based on the foundation of John 3:16.

I spent some time in what was the non-Christian area but found that there was no constructive debate or sincere questions from those claiming to be athiests. No, it was more of the non-believers making fun of and denouncing Christianity and any other faith.

So I shot back to the safty of the Christian area. That brings me to what for me and the granddaughter I brought with me--the key--safty. I need fellowship with Christians--I dont care what denomination they are--only that they share a love of Jesus.

I also frequent the Golden eagles and had my first run in with what I suppose was one of the changes--not sure---but an 18yr old moderator in training popping into a thread of seniors suggesting in a sarcastic manner that we are not devoted enough is not going to be something I will be able to deal with.

In closing--I have already begun to reduce my time here due to the changes that the original message claimed but I am waiting and hoping for the best before I decided once and for all.

Im not sure why this is so hard--this is either a Christian site or it is not. I there is going to be a safe Christian area then I will stay but if there isnt I will not. I have a kid here with me and thus a responsibility to her.

Just my 2 cents...
Bubbi (praying for the best because I dont want to have to leave)

Click to expand...

I am going to admit this, but your Post spoke the loudest words out of everything I have read so far.

The Lord has given you a Heart of Gold.

Ok- my 2 cents...


-no more mods running for office. Moderators should not be politicians and being a mod shouldn't have anything to do with whether or not you have a large enough contingent to get you elected. Someone who might be a wonderful mod could be passed over because they are quiet or don't have a lot of friends or what have you. I also think it's bad in a sense that it could- I'm not saying it has- it could lead people to feel badly taking actions against people who voted for them. I've seen a few mod app threads turn into some pretty nasty stuff. Go back to the old way with some rule about re-calling a mod. But get rid of the voting. I really hate public voting for mods in case that wasn't clear

-Give the mods who are working now some actual rules and ways to enforce them. I can't even imagine how much work it is taking to send out RFE's for all these posts. That can take days while you argue back-and-forth or even just days for someone to read a PM. Go back to at least warnings, which should be appealable as they should have been before.

-Get rid of wiki. Either that or get some finalized rules and stick to them. I don't even know what the rules are right now. And I think only Christians should make rules concerning how Jesus is going to be talked about or debated. I just do. So if wiki is gotten rid of, perhaps form a committee of people of all faiths and just get some finalized rules and not change them every other day.

-Give people that want a CO area a CO area. Many came to this site to fellowship with Christians only. No matter what anyone else thinks of them for doing it, that's what they signed up for. It doesn't have to be a huge area, just an area. Perhaps with things like a deeper fellowship or a Bible study for Christians. The entire rest of the board could be open with congregations deciding for themselves what they want.

-Ministry and Outreach should have Christian mods.

-No more forced icon changes or inquiries, but the site could still take a stance such as "on this site we use the Nicene Creed (or Apostles or whatever) as a way to determine what being a Christian means." At least take a stance or something. People can choose and they can change at will, yes, but at least there has been a stand taken.

-Report threads public but with only staff and the person reported commenting. The report threads are insanity to me at the moment. It's chaos. Public is fine but the comments should be limited so they don't turn into debates and fussing with each other. Make it mod and person reported commenting only.

-Keep the CR public, but still give the mods a few private places to do things like IP checks, and as anyone on staff knows, sometimes a member needs to be discussed in private. Not gossip- discussed. Like the person who was calling mods at home and stalking them. Or the guy who was preying on teenage girls. That doesn't need to be public for a variety of reasons.


Alright, I'm done. As we're giving opinions or ideas here those are my opinions.

CaDan said:

I have been thinking a bit about the wiki.

It seems to me that wiki technology is good for drafting and discussing rules. What it lacks is a way of finalizing rules (to use the technical term, engrossing them). The snapshots taken by Admins have been an informal way of engrossing rules and are probably the best that can be done right now. There should be a more orderly way of doing that.

Click to expand...

You mean like the rules I had to put into effect in CF wiki CaDan just to keep order sometimes that you originally thought were not needed?

My dear Friend this may be a way to get out ideas but even then it is only a small group that is making the decisions for all of the board, so really nothing has changed from when the Administration was doing it for us. We still do not have enough of the membership here participating in the rules and guidelines and protocols threads. So what is going to happened is somewhere down the line the main membership is going to get upset again and again ect and the rules will be changed over and over ect ....

In the wiki formatting there is no structure....anyone can make an edit or start a wiki at anytime.

Seriously we need to start looking at this. At this juncture someone could go tomorrow and say I want so and so religion taken off the board or moved out of the Faith section of the board.... if enough people make it so by consensus in that wiki then well it will be. Now on the same token then someone can then make a wiki for inclusion and then you have turf warring on your hands all over the board. That is just one example....

intricatic said:

I'm making a simple statement based on real world situations in order to make a point about what orthopraxy and orthodoxy consist of. You can't have one without the other, or the one becomes meaningless.

Click to expand...

Sure you can. Non-Christians do the right thing all the time without having the right beliefs.

I have to wonder - if this place has lost Christ as some people are saying in their signatures and their posts - why are they not shaking the dust from their feet and leaving?

Purifying FLAME said:

I have to wonder - if this place has lost Christ as some people are saying in their signatures and their posts - why are they not shaking the dust from their feet and leaving?

Click to expand...

LovestoRead answered that question best: The thing about leaving anywhere is, it's a hard and painful thing for many of us. That could be true of leaving a job or your home. The same is true in a church.

Relationships have been formed, friendships made, many times they are long-standing. People at times even get a sense of "family" with their fellow congregants, if they have become involved in the "life" of the church. To leave is not a small thing to most people.

It's nothing new and it's part of human nature. I've always thought that God made us this way so that we would work very hard at getting along. "Iron sharpens iron" ...but sometimes the work seems just too hard. Even Tevye' in Fiddler on the Roof reached his limits, at least last I listened to him.

So, the answer to your question is not easy. It should be a careful, considered decision to leave somewhere so precious. Gut-wrenching even, as parting fellowship is a sad thing...we are called to show others that we are Christians by our love for each other. We often fail loving those most dear to us in a truly Godly way....how much more we fail with those who are less important in our immediate lives.

Jesus came as a humble servant, but His words were revolutionary - and He was the only one to do it all perfectly.

Purifying FLAME said:

I have to wonder - if this place has lost Christ as some people are saying in their signatures and their posts - why are they not shaking the dust from their feet and leaving?

Click to expand...

You know, this is something I find very, very curious. And I'm truly not trying to debate or anything, it's just really very curious. In the past, in DR, when people were griping and complaining or unhappy here, if someone even dared to say "then why don't you just leave?" there would be outrage! People would come back with things like, "Oh how Christian. Sure, just get rid of us." etc.

But now the shoe is on the other foot and suddenly all over the place people are saying why don't you just leave then.

I don't get it. I mean, I tend to agree. If you hate some place so much just leave already. But it's very odd that it's now basically OK to tell people to leave but before it was a scandal. I don't get it. Is it a little of now it's my way and I'm happy so I don't care if you are? (That's a general "my", btw. Not you PF).

As I said- I'm not angry. This is just something I have noticed since the changes and I just find curious That's all.

GreenMunchkin said:

LovestoRead answered that question best: The thing about leaving anywhere is, it's a hard and painful thing for many of us.

Click to expand...

ma'am - I have left twice because of abuses and unChristian attitudes and behaviors by members of staff - returning with high hopes when reforms have taken place. NOW - all but ONE of those people are gone from staff. I know how hard it is to walk away - but it can be done.

That could be true of leaving a job or your home. The same is true in a church.

Click to expand...

This is not a job. This is not a home. This is not a church.

Purifying FLAME said:

I have to wonder - if this place has lost Christ as some people are saying in their signatures and their posts - why are they not shaking the dust from their feet and leaving?

Click to expand...

There's always a gleam of hope, although I'll probably be leaving on a more permanent level shortly if things don't seem to be working towards a more biblical center.

meh said:

You know, this is something I find very, very curious.

Click to expand...

see my last post.

intricatic said:

There's always a gleam of hope, although I'll probably be leaving on a more permanent level shortly if things don't seem to be working towards a more biblical center.

Click to expand...

Things are more biblical now than they have ever been before. The doors are open and all are welcome.

Purifying FLAME said:

see my last post.

Click to expand...

saw it

Purifying FLAME said:

ma'am - I have left twice because of abuses and unChristian attitudes and behaviors by members of staff - returning with high hopes when reforms have taken place. NOW - all but ONE of those people are gone from staff. I know how hard it is to walk away - but it can be done.

Click to expand...

Not everyone has the fortitude to do so. We're all different, PF.

This is not a job. This is not a home. This is not a church.

Click to expand...

That doesn't invalidate the strength of feeling that can develop. People have met life-long friends here; spouses, even. The relationships formed here can be very real.

MichaelFJF said:

Erwin, why are you trying to be all things to all people? It's your site - run it how you want to. You do this stuff on your own time - you're not obligated to keep everyone happy. Set the standards and keep them. If people leave, so be it.

"I don't know what the key to success is, but I know for sure the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
- Mark Twain

Click to expand...

Took the thoughts right out of me own brain...

Erwin...you're trying to please too many people, and no one is ever going to be happy. This is your site.