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A MILLION PERCENT!!!As I said in the other thread, I believe we are putting the cart in front of the horse, and the first thing we need to do is visit the vision for this site.
Right now it is "uniting all christians into one body".
Such a vision is impossible to acheive. That is just being pragmatic and logical. It is not within the scope of a website, any website, to acheive such a vision and lofty, noble goal. An impossible goal sets one up for failure.
Before we can decide how to structure CF in a way that will work, we need to have a vision that is workable, doable, acheivable.
As I proposed in the other thread, that vision should be more about understanding one another . .
So, Erwin, may I propose that the vision of CF be changed to something along these lines:
"Promoting understanding, fellowship and ministiry among christians and chrsitian witness to the world."
That is much more acheivable than trying to unify all christians, and doesn't set us up for failure.
Then it is much easier to see how to structure CF.
.
The reason I returned was because I'd heard that the Congregational fora had been opened.
Erwin, I love this site. I have put a lot into it over the last four years. It's been a blessing to me.
Some of the changes that have happened are good, but some need to go. Here's what I think needs to be done:
-Make the rules concrete. No more Wiki.
-Bring back the Niccene Creed.
-Make Staff Christian Only
What I like about the new site:
-Non-Christians can post with the Christians.
-The transparency (although I wouldn't mind a private forum for staff, it's not neccasary. PM's work. This way all members can see what happens in the super sekrit staff forum).
That's just my $.02
In terms of the Wikis, my experience has been that the core site rules Wiki has been going quite well, and that it's the subforum and smaller issue ones that end up bogged down and problematic. Perhaps some sort of hybrid system could be managed?
Erwin, why are you trying to be all things to all people? It's your site - run it how you want to. You do this stuff on your own time - you're not obligated to keep everyone happy. Set the standards and keep them. If people leave, so be it.
"I don't know what the key to success is, but I know for sure the key to failure is trying to please everybody."
- Mark Twain
I posted this in the other forum, before I saw this, but I think it is more fitting here...
A few pages back, Erwin asked about what types of changes we could see at CF. Since he asked, I am going to state what I feel should be the changes made.
1. Return the Christians Only area that encompasses ALL Christians... including the unorthodox Christians... that might not be a popular item, but I personally believe a person who believes Jesus is God is a Christian, who am I to judge their heart?
2. No forced icon changes. If a person states they are Christian, allow them to carry a Christian icon... encompass into the rules a rule stating that if a person talks against the Bible within the CO area, make it so it is a rule violation to do so.
3. Return the Open threads, where a person can choose whether or not they want to have the thread open to everyone.
4. Within some of the CO areas, allow for a subforum where everyone for the entire site can post. For example, have a CO men's discussion and an everyone men's discussion. If people are afraid the site would grow too large, then have only certain areas have a subforum.
5. No non-Christians on staff, however make it so they do have a voice. Have a non-Christian team possibly where they have access to post in all staff forums in which they can voice their concerns for the non-Christians. Also, continue with them being able to be on the armory team and other privileges we all have here.
6. Continue with the transparency. I was against this at first, but I think being able to see the reports and being able to participate in them is a good thing.. possibly make some restrictions so the reports do not get out of hand.
7. Have a set of rules that cannot change on a whim.. in other words, get a rid of the wiki. Condense the rules and don't have so many of them.
8. Bring back the warnings and infractions, but make them all appealable. If a person is causing problems, they are not going to learn by continuously getting warned, they unfortunately need consequences.
9. Have a conciliator team made up of unbiased members that will have access to the staff forums and regular forums. They will fight for equality and deal with conflicts within the staff as well as with the members... basically have staff/staff conflict resolution and staff/member conflict resolution. This team would be made up of anyone that can fulfill the job, and there will be one or several conciliators assigned to particular teams. They would also make sure things are being done ethically and the policies are being adhered to.
10. Within the appeals process, have a special team that listens to the appeals. This people would be the ones that understand the policies and procedures very well. This way, they will not be biased towards a team.. like the administrators of each team could have been while listening to appeals before.
11. Keep the Congregational areas open to everyone for those that are curious about the different denominations. Of course close that area off to debating, but people that are interested of any faith or non-faith can go there and discuss or ask questions about that denomination.
And if people do not like my suggestion of having a CO only area, then I would suggest having an open to everyone area, and then on the important forums, such as men's discussion have a CO area.. so there are not as many CO areas, but there are some, just for us Christians who want a special area just for us.
These are my proposals, I know there are a lot of them.. and I have given this some thought before, if you can't tell.
I think with the right amount of motivation CF could actually become a great place to be, like it once was... and I am NOT referring to the old system. God bless.
What it lacks is a way of finalizing rules (to use the technical term, engrossing them).
This idea has merits. I'd love to see it discussed further though.Erwin, I love this site. I have put a lot into it over the last four years. It's been a blessing to me.
Some of the changes that have happened are good, but some need to go. Here's what I think needs to be done:
-Make the rules concrete. No more Wiki.
-Bring back the Niccene Creed.
-Make Staff Christian Only
What I like about the new site:
-Non-Christians can post with the Christians.
-The transparency (although I wouldn't mind a private forum for staff, it's not neccasary. PM's work. This way all members can see what happens in the super sekrit staff forum).
That's just my $.02
This is an excellent point.As I said in the other thread, I believe we are putting the cart in front of the horse, and the first thing we need to do is visit the vision for this site.
Right now it is "uniting all christians into one body".
Such a vision is impossible to acheive. That is just being pragmatic and logical. It is not within the scope of a website, any website, to acheive such a vision and lofty, noble goal. An impossible goal sets one up for failure.
Before we can decide how to structure CF in a way that will work, we need to have a vision that is workable, doable, acheivable.
As I proposed in the other thread, that vision should be more about understanding one another . .
So, Erwin, may I propose that the vision of CF be changed to something along these lines:
"Promoting understanding, fellowship and ministiry among christians and chrsitian witness to the world."
That is much more acheivable than trying to unify all christians, and doesn't set us up for failure.
Then it is much easier to see how to structure CF.
.
I prefer orthoPRAXY over orthodoxy. It's easy to pretend you have the right beliefs - harder to fake right actions.Most important item for me.
Christian orthodoxy is important, and moving away from it would be a mistake, IMO.
ETA: Not to say I think we should go back to enforcing icons, but I do think the site's goal should include promoting orthodox Christianity.
I second it , and agree with what you wrote as well.This is an excellent point.
Unity at all costs has too high a pricetag.
I think we need to recognise that we disagree fundamentally on some things, and that that is ok. Not that there is no truth - there is truth. God knows that - he does not have multiple truths - just one. We are all obviously trying to discover that truths. Humility being the key - we work out our faith in fear and trembling, encouraging and teaching and humbly recongnising that we may be the ones that are wrong.
That being said - we should not be ashamed to sketch some outlines of some boundries - that's where I think somethign like the creed is important. There is some point where things stop being able to be called christian. It is ok to draw a line in the sand for the sake of the site functioning. It is ok for the owner to define what he thinks is fundamentally important to Chrisitianity - it is his site.
It's only like that right now because it is the beginning of the system. Given time, things will settle down. You don't build a Castle over night.Wiki has got to go. It's a ridiculous system where even most of the staff don't know what rules are valid, much less the members. It's simply too fluid. And it *is* determined by the people who have the most stamina to stay in a thread and argue it out, or by who can get more people to agree with them. That's mob rule. It doesn't have a single benefit that won't also exist with another system.
They're both equally important. Like understanding it's not right to blatantly insult people, without that understanding, you can't put into practice the idea of not blatantly insulting people.I prefer orthoPRAXY over orthodoxy. It's easy to pretend you have the right beliefs - harder to fake right actions.
BTW so that we have some accuracy here this has always been how mods were put into position, they were voted in by the moderationship or Administration. So either way it is a popularity contest.Staff shouldn't be voted in. It's a popularity contest and creates mistrust both for members and within staff ranks.
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