What would option 3 look like

pete56 said:

OK Brother (and believe me no irony was intended - any one that calls himself a Christ Follower is my brother!)

Lets drop it then!

P

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I think both genez and you have made the right decision. Blessings to you both!

genez said:

We have been told to be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves. We have not been told to be wise as doves.

In Christ, GeneZ
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Awesome Point and I agree whole heartedly!

genez said:

Problem in the past was...If we begin discussing this aspect with an open mind? Exploring Scripture? To determine truth?

Certain moderators would throw at us past heresies, that what was being discussed only may have concerned the same topic of the area of discussion. It became a knee jerk reaction to key words and phrases, when what the heresy spoke of had a different conclusion.

These ones did not tolerate their church traditions and conclusions being challenged in any way. That is when the Creed gimmick was used to bump out those who irritated their sense of being absolutely right about what they believe.

But? Ask them to debate the issue and reason it through? They would refuse. They were above debate! Their church says its so! No debate!

That was not said in a desire to flame anyone. But, it was said to expose past abuse by those who would take it as a flame. Because it did happen.

In Christ, GeneZ
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I see what you are saying and if that be the case, I do not understand how past heresies should have a bearing on any present post. If unbelievers are allowed to post then it is obvious that heresies are allowed. If Christians are not allowed to debate using scriptures bringing further light on an issue or explaining a poster's view then that defeats the whole point of a forum. If doctrine is prevented than this is a hypocritical and biased forum and not worthy of the title "Chrisitan" Forums and the name should be changed!

The scripture says, "All men only know in part" and that includes moderators, senior moderators, supervisors, administrators, etc. etc. I believe I have seen an administrator that is 17 years old. This is beyond my comprehension, because there is NO WAY a 17 year old will EVER understand doctrine or life issues as well as I do. There is NO WAY that they are mature enough to make judgements regarding anything more than the rules of this forum and that, only in the narrowest sense, giving them no leeway for "judgement" of any intent or supposition. They just are NOT capable of doing that at their young age no matter how "mature" they may be! I question the criteria and/or system that would allow for such a thing to happen.

Inan3 said:

I see what you are saying and if that be the case, I do not understand how past heresies should have a bearing on any present post. If unbelievers are allowed to post then it is obvious that heresies are allowed. If Christians are not allowed to debate using scriptures bringing further light on an issue or explaining a poster's view then that defeats the whole point of a forum. If doctrine is prevented than this is a hypocritical and biased forum and not worthy of the title "Chrisitan" Forums and the name should be changed!

The scripture says, "All men only know in part" and that includes moderators, senior moderators, supervisors, administrators, etc. etc. I believe I have seen an administrator that is 17 years old. This is beyond my comprehension, because there is NO WAY a 17 year old will EVER understand doctrine or life issues as well as I do. There is NO WAY that they are mature enough to make judgements regarding anything more than the rules of this forum and that, only in the narrowest sense, giving them no leeway for "judgement" of any intent or supposition. They just are NOT capable of doing that at their young age no matter how "mature" they may be! I question the criteria and/or system that would allow for such a thing to happen.

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Maturity in Christ is not age dependant. Scripture proves this over and over. Samuel comes to mind. David and I am sure many others. Timothy is another...

When I was 6 years old, I corrected my pastor on a bit of Scripture. It was nothing major, but it just goes to show how it can happen.

Age has nothing to do with Spiritual wisdom. It is up to the Holy Spirit to whom discernment is given. We just cannot say, "That will never happen..."

Lisa

Lisa0315 said:

Maturity in Christ is not age dependant. Scripture proves this over and over. Samuel comes to mind. David and I am sure many others. Timothy is another...

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But, moderation is not a spiritual maturity issue!

When I was 6 years old, I corrected my pastor on a bit of Scripture. It was nothing major, but it just goes to show how it can happen.

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That does not mean maturity. It just means you knew something that another did not. How much knowledge one has is not an automatic ticket to spiritual maturity. Nor is it to human maturity. Seeing an adult who is a genius have a temper tantrum comes to mind.

Age has nothing to do with Spiritual wisdom. It is up to the Holy Spirit to whom discernment is given. We just cannot say, "That will never happen..."

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In the sense, that a man who is sixty years old who has neglected Bible study, is not spiritual more mature than a forty year old who has been a serious student since he was twenty. In that sense? You are correct.


Yet, young physical age does limit the time needed to mature as a person. Would you go to a seventeen year old marriage councilor to seek wisdom? It requires human maturity!

Of course there can always be an exception....

But?

I had a young moderator once PM me with warning that was all wrong. I corrected the moderator and showed him his error. He actually accused me falsely of a very serious accusation. He actually broke forum rules in what he did. Never heard from him again.

Human maturity plays a big part in moderating.

After all? Some here want unbelievers as moderators. Know what that means? Spiritual maturity is not even an issue. How could spiritual maturity be the issue if that is the case. Right?

That means, human maturity is a first priority if one is to be a fair and just moderator. That only comes with age and experience. And, it comes from a desire to be fair and just. With others the desire to moderate comes from a natural desire to run things. That's not so good all the time. Things get rigid that way.

mrconstance said:

Lots of people, including me, told you where and how you disagreed with the Nicene Creed. You either ignored the points we made or tried to argue that you didn't really disagree.

So when conformity to the Nicene Creed was a requirement for being in the "Christian only" forums, you claimed that you conformed to the Nicene Creed. Now that you don't have to conform to the Nicene Creed, you're saying something different:

You don't actually believe that the Nicene Creed teaches what Scripture says. You don't think the Nicene Creed is a good statement to use as the basis of Christian faith. That doesn't make you a bad person. It makes you a non-Nicene Christian. In other words, the staff in the old system were right.

Alan

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I am a born again Chistian and I have been for 37 years. My life changed when I "received" Jesus Christ as MY saviour. I was NOT at a church but in a social workers office. A couple of years prior to this I began to desire to study God's Word. I began to pray personally to the Lord not with flowery printed prayers but out of my heart asking Him things that I didn't know about or understand. I believe that desire for a deeper understanding came from the Holy Spirit as God was drawing me closer to Him. The steps of a righteous man are ordered of the Lord. Every step I took was directed to a place where I would learn about the new birth, where I could pray and ask Jesus to forgive me and come into my life, where I could COMMIT my life to Him. On the day that I did that my life changed. I have never been the same and I would never go back to before that day.

I tell you this because PRIOR to that I was a Catholic. I was brought up Catholic. My father was a devout Catholic and a wonderful man. My mother had converted to Catholicism. I went to a paochial school. I was taught by nuns. I went faithfully to church and confession. I made my first communion. I was confirmed. I marched in processions at church. I memorized prayers and the confetia (not sure of spelling). I memorized the Apostles Creed (and believed it). I studied my catechism and knew what it said. I was a good Catholic BUT I WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN! I believed in God and the Catholic Church but it wasn't until a Presbyterian woman told me that Jesus died for ME and ALL I had to do was to believe that and ask Him to forgive me and come into my heart and when I acted upon that in faith, I THEN became a new creature in Christ Jesus. I became a follower of Christ.

Being a Christians is more than believing the Nicene Creed. The devils know and believe that. Being a Christian is accepting the sacrifice that Jesus died on the cross for YOU personally, not just that He died on a cross and rose again, but hat He did it for YOU and that in so believing you agree that you are NOW FREE from sins judgement. You will not have to PAY for it in anyway, not penance, purgatory, limbo or hell. JESUS did it FOR you.

I was a Catholic but not born again. When I became born again I became alive from the dead, alive unto God. I NOW can understand God. He speaks to me, lives in me, walks with me, uses me. I now have His divine nature in me. I am born of God JUST as Jesus was born of God. I now have the nature to serve Him and follow Him. That is what a Christian is....a follower of Christ.

Below is the Greek meaning for the word Christian in the Bible.
G5546 Χριστιανός Christianos
Thayer Definition:
1) Christian, a follower of Christ
Part of Speech: noun proper masculine
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from G5547
Citing in TDNT: 9:493, 1322

There are plenty of people who believe the Nicene Creed but do not follow Christ. They can't because they are NOT born again. They are religious but not alive unto God.

THEREFORE, believing The Nicene Creed is not enough to judge whether a person is a Christian or not.

Living in the United States is not enough to judge whether a person is a Christian or not.

Going to church is not enough to judge whether a person is Christian or not.


The Word of God is the ONLY criterior which we must use to determine if a person is a Christian.

AChrisitan is a follower of Christ and one cannot, is incapable, of following Christ unless one is born of God, born of the Spirt, born again of incorruptible seed, by the Word of God. PERIOD!

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:

Inan3 said:

I see what you are saying and if that be the case, I do not understand how past heresies should have a bearing on any present post. If unbelievers are allowed to post then it is obvious that heresies are allowed.

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This is from the first post in this thread,,,, Erwin's post.

It is possible that Option 1 and Option 2 can be combined together into a middle ground of Option 3 since this is what the poll is really showing us (and I had hoped that the current CF setup would have been the Option 3, since it has elements of both, but apparently not). So the question is, if that's the answer (and I'm not saying it is at this stage), what would Option 3 look like?

It's a question that's does not have an easy answer.

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I was revealing something that may help in what it may end up looking like. For, Erwin was suggesting two forums, not one. So? If we have two? Lets not have a Christian's only section repeat the same abuses as before. I would not appreciate having to post in an unbelievers section again, as I was forced to the first time.

If Christians are not allowed to debate using scriptures bringing further light on an issue or explaining a poster's view then that defeats the whole point of a forum.

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It was being defeated! That's the point!

The solution (as it was who abused) was to remove those they could from posting in the Christian section who debated in a manner that got under their skin because what they read was not what their church teaches.

One who was able debate the points and show that Scripture does not agree with the traditions of their church? Those who saw their church as being infallible? The solution? Move out those who exposed errors in the church's thinking by means of Scripture. The Creed gimmick was the simplest way. If you know what the Word of God teaches? Its impossible to agree with on some points. One must choose. Tradition - or - the Word of God.

If doctrine is prevented than this is a hypocritical and biased forum and not worthy of the title "Chrisitan" Forums and the name should be changed!

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Protestant sect believers needed to organize a private blog as to deal with the corrupt practices that were going on to silence those who relied solely upon Scripture for their answers. Erwin was to be made aware, because we created a petition. I believe its one of the reasons for this current change we find ourselves in.

The scripture says, "All men only know in part" and that includes moderators, senior moderators, supervisors, administrators, etc. etc. I believe I have seen an administrator that is 17 years old. This is beyond my comprehension, because there is NO WAY a 17 year old will EVER understand doctrine or life issues as well as I do.

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Application will be a weak point. Knowledge may not be. Having knowledge but no practical experience is what makes rookie cops such a nuisance at times. They do not yet have the maturity to apply the knowledge.

There is NO WAY that they are mature enough to make judgements regarding anything more than the rules of this forum and that, only in the narrowest sense, giving them no leeway for "judgement" of any intent or supposition.

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Unless they are a spiritual genius? I agree.

They just are NOT capable of doing that at their young age no matter how "mature" they may be! I question the criteria and/or system that would allow for such a thing to happen.

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Well, time will tell. Those who might not see it, are willing to give it a try. Or, maybe many young were complaining they were discriminated against moderating because of age. So?

Sometimes the best solution is to let them find out for themselves. As long as others of maturity are overseeing the operation? There will be checks and balances. That way, the young ones may find out for themselves why they should not moderate.



The Bible tells us there is a difference to be found by age...

Lisa0315 said:

Maturity in Christ is not age dependant. Scripture proves this over and over. Samuel comes to mind. David and I am sure many others. Timothy is another...

When I was 6 years old, I corrected my pastor on a bit of Scripture. It was nothing major, but it just goes to show how it can happen.

Age has nothing to do with Spiritual wisdom. It is up to the Holy Spirit to whom discernment is given. We just cannot say, "That will never happen..."

Lisa

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When a 6 year old corrects a pastor it is because they are immature and do not understand authority. You may have been correct in your knowledge but widsom would know that it was out of order, but it is allowed because a 6 year old cannot understand that, at that point in their life, and adults know that.

I agree age has nothing to do with spiritual wisdom but maturity takes time in ones life. The Lord understands that and even though He used David and Samuel and others, they still had to be trained and mature in their faith and walk. God called David to be king at a young age but David didn't walk in that position of authority for many years. Joseph was shown his future at an early age but it was not for many years that that was fulfilled in his life. Moses knew he had a call on his life to deliver Israel but but it wasn't until he was old that that came to pass.

Many of the problems in the churches today is that there are too many people who are in positions of leadership and they have not been proved yet. They may have a call on their lives but they are not ready to fulfill that position yet. That is why the ELDERS had the care of the flocks. And Timothy was a "young man" of about 45 -50 years old, it is believed, and he was still submitted to, and under, the Elder apostle Paul.

drstevej said:

Still waiting for a vision here.

Erwin, when are you gonna communicate?

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My sentiments, too. I thought I might have missed some communique from Erwin, but I guess not.

Boy, CF's glitchen today...all I see is red x's...reminds me of grade school. CF's mad that Erwin took away the creed!

MeekOne said:

CF's mad that Erwin took away the creed!

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I would like to quiz you on the Creed. Under the old system? If I wanted to? I could have had you banned from the Christian section. It would be easy.


Now, I did not say quiz you on what the Word of God teaches. I said quiz you on what the Creed declares in certain parts. You must agree with the Creed to be here. You'd be gone. That is, if I found you to be an annoyance.

Want to see how it would work? PM me.

Not that we do not need a means to keep things in order here. But, once the Creed gimmick was discovered, it was hurting the good as well as controlling the bad.

Gene, we need a creed, Nicene, Apostolic, or statement of faith....we need something. We've already talked about this privately...I do not need you to quiz me, but thanks for the offer just the same.