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What would option 3 look like

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stranger

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It is inevitable that there are 'theological issues' involved in deciding how a christian site should be run ... ideally we would have sorted them all out beforehand, but we are nowhere even close yet... so we have to address them here as people bring them up in elements of discussiing option 3...

christianity is partly about these issues , at least as it exists on this site, so they have to be addressed , not ignored or pushed aside as has happened continually in the past...
 
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stranger

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This is excatly the sort of thing I have suffered myself and many people I know of and have heard about...

We have a group who have been given power as mods by the site structure and who abuse that power to impose personal creeds eve when one can prove these false by scripture .... it simply ruins the opportunity to reprove beliefs to the scripture as is meant to happen :-

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

thus tempting sinners to judge others and giving them the powre to gag people and even to bvan people is UNLOVING and CORRUPTS christians besisdes the unlovingness they mete out to thoise seeking the truth .... it is so very SICK and so very far from justice or love that should abound on a chrsitian site... the structure is wrong becauise it corrupts people, sinners cannoot judge aright because they are sinners, not saints.. do not then appoint them as judges else they mess themselves and others up by being unloving here...

Jesus made the law of love for a reason , because it works... so IMPLEMENT it as the law here !! So obvious, yet it doesn't happen....
 
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Inan3

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I went to check my post #429 which you quoted and I found you included 4 scriptural references and I quoted 15 scriptural references. I'd say that refutes what you just said about my quoting scriptures.

Just for clarification it is not the scriptures that I think is false it is your personal interpretation of them.
 
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GenemZ

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As in...

You are free to tells us what you believe, so we can find out those ones we do not want to hear from.


2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:



Correct. No traditions of men/churches are mentioned in that verse.


Yet? God is showing the angels why he could not allow their beloved Satan and his angels to remain in His kingdom with them.

For God knew this sort of injustice would have taken place if he had. That is one reason God allows for such injustices to take place on earth. They serve as examples to reveal to the angels who needed to see why God's judgment was vindicated.

For right after the fall of angels? Those who did not fall? They were innocent and naive about evil. They still loved deeply all the fallen angels and Satan. God needed a means to show them what it was he knew, but they could yet not understand. So? The fall of man and redemption is a perfect classroom of examples for them to learn from.


the structure is wrong because it corrupts people, sinners cannot judge aright because they are sinners, not saints.. do not then appoint them as judges else they mess themselves and others up by being unloving here...
The problem boils down to this. Religion can not evaluate the living growing relationship that Christianity is. Both may call themselves Christian. But, in function? That is not the case. Remember! We are a classroom for angels. They are watching and observing why God will not tolerate evil in his Kingdom. These things have to happen for that reason. God comforts those who love his Word. And, these things must happen.

Jesus made the law of love for a reason , because it works... so IMPLEMENT it as the law here !! So obvious, yet it doesn't happen....

The law of Love was not to based upon solely the feelings of love and acceptance. Just like a mother who loves her children may hack a man to death trying to molest her child caught in the act. Love can be violent when its needs to protect.

And? Love will not side with the lie when someone you love is lying.

For before all else? Our love must be based in the Love for God's Word!



John 1:1 (New International Version)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."



I did not say "memorize." Or, study hard. I said... "Love for the Word." For if you love the Word? You love God. For if you love God? You will Love the Word.

Jesus said to love one another as he loved us. And, he was always saying..."It is written."

Grace and peace, GeneZ
 
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GenemZ

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We accept that all three are essences of the One Being

But, Jesus also includes the essence of humanity along with his essence of Deity. Your church tends to blur what that means and declares his flesh somehow to be God. God is Spirit. God is not flesh. Yet? God chose to be one with humanity. That humanity by virtue of what it consists of can not be God in itself. The humanity is God because the Father determined that the humanity was to be in union with God, and to be the means by which we can understand God.


Now? If Deity decided to remove Himself from Jesus? Jesus would not die. For he has a soul. He would remain alive as being only a man. But? Because God foreordained to always be in union with Christ? Christ is God forever! God being expressed to us by means of a perfect humanity to express to us in terms and feeling we can relate to as humans, who and what God is.


Hebrews 1:3 (New International Version)
"The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven."


What followed after the Nicene Creed were others to help further clarify. Here is one.


Chalcedonian Creed
(451 AD)


This creed was adopted at the Fourth Ecumenical Council, held at Chalcedon, located in what is now Turkey, in 451, as a response to certain heretical views concerning the nature of Christ. It established the orthodox view that Christ has two natures (human and divine) that are unified in one person.

________________________

We, then, following the holy Fathers, all with one consent, teach men to confess one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, the same perfect in Godhead and also perfect in manhood; truly God and truly man, of a reasonable [rational] soul and body; consubstantial [co-essential] with the Father according to the Godhead, and consubstantial with us according to the Manhood; in all things like unto us, without sin; begotten before all ages of the Father according to the Godhead, and in these latter days, for us and for our salvation, born of the Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, according to the Manhood; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, only begotten, to be acknowledged in two natures, inconfusedly, unchangeably, indivisibly, inseparably; the distinction of natures being by no means taken away by the union, but rather the property of each nature being preserved, and concurring in one Person and one Subsistence, not parted or divided into two persons, but one and the same Son, and only begotten, God the Word, the Lord Jesus Christ; as the prophets from the beginning [have declared] concerning Him, and the Lord Jesus Christ Himself has taught us, and the Creed of the holy Fathers has handed down to us.




Now, I do not agree with Mary as being the Mother of God. But, what else this creed tells us (which was to help better understand the Nicene Creed) explains that Jesus Christ is the unique person of the Godhead of whom consists of two natures simultaneously... without one losing the true essence of each while yet in total union as one person.



I said God could not die. For, God can not die. I said God has no mother and can not be born. God can not be born. The humanity that God placed himself in union with could be born.



They did not want to learn anything new, even though to follow their tradition defies both logic and the Word of God. And, out I went. Had to take on a non-Christian icon as a result.




Let's not return to the Creed. Let's return with the essential aspects of the Creed, but without the denominational baggage filled with lead.

Grace and peace, GeneZ
 
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Inan3

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And you seem to think that it is your place to point that out (all the time), calling them christian sinners and saying they don't know what they are talking etc. etc. It seems you think that it is rude for others to do that to you but not rude when you do it to others. Looks like a double standard to me.



Once again, double standard and I will give you the same advice you gave to me once in an earlier post. Read post 429 again and you will see my explanation of the things that I have said you misinterpreted and took out of context. It is all there "with" scriptural references also.



I am baffled that you could say this over and over again and I wonder did you even read my posting or did you just take it apart and start to lie about it. Somehow I don't believe you ARE lying but something is really wrong in the way you interpreted what I was saying. I DID explain to you why I thought you were mistaken and I DID give you scriptural references (15 to be precise).


I can only repeat my anwer above???!!!


I BELIEVE THERE IS ONE GOD MADE UP OF THREE PERSONS. I have no idea if this agrees with you because it seems to me in the above paragraph that you made two contradictory statements.


There the scripture disgarees with you Jesus will rule for all time in scripture, not just a thousand years

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

I was merely speaking of the Millenial Reign on the Earth. I never limited that reign.



How do you know what I checked and didn't check? The truth is you don't.


I'm not sure what's going on in your brain here but I never said I was afraid of Hell and I know all those scriptures but don't know why your bringing them up here


The Lake of Fire is a literal place and more than the explanation you gave in parenthesis. So perhaps you do disagree with me after all.

1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

I agree with this scripture but do not believe it has anything to do with the Lake of Fire, in case that is what you were saying.

The important things we agree on. You cannot understand this because you have not been born of the Spirit as stated out of your own mouth. You keep speaking of a future salvation but the Kingdom of God is come unto you NOW. It began with Jesus.

By we I was speaking of we Christians.


Unchristian venom IS tolerated here I have seen it in many posts and threads (but that's beside the point).

Once again you need to look into this mirror of hypocricy that you are holding out to everyone else.
 
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Inan3

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I realize that individuals need to obey Him if they believe He is Lord but regardless of whether men obey Him. He IS Lord of all and EVERY KNEE shall bow and EVERY TONGUE confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.


The Greek translation of Eternal in the Strongs concordance follows:

Eternal (Strongs #166)

1) without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2) without beginning
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting


Damnation (Strongs # 2920)

1) a separating, sundering, separation
a) a trial, contest
2) selection
3) judgment
a) opinion or decision given concerning anything
1) esp. concerning justice and injustice, right or wrong
b) sentence of condemnation, damnatory judgment, condemnation and punishment
4) the college of judges (a tribunal of seven men in the several cities of Palestine; as distinguished from the Sanhedrin, which had its seat at Jerusalem)
5) right, justice

Their doesn't seem to be anything about "age lasting" judgement. A translation is different than the actual Greek definition. Maybe the translation you refer to should make sure it translates the Greek closer. Or better still maybe you better get another translation.

That's it for now because this is not the corect thread for this discussion. I invited you to another thread but you didn't seem to get there yet.
 
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Godslilgurlalways

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Great idea

I have been here for a few years and I love this site, I am more decidated to this site than I am to any other. I will be praying that God will give you a visions of what he wants the site to be.
 
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zaire

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Agree! Except maybe for the 'make staff christain only' part.
 
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hopperace

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Option 3: An inclusive* Christian site (still named Christian Forums) with respectful outreach to self-described non-Christians.

*inclusive means accepting self-described Christians, marrieds, gendered, aged, etc. as such for purposes of the site. Distinctions can certainly be entertained for type of Christian, etc. (e.g. conservative, orthodox, creedal, Nicene, Apostolic, Reformed, evangelical, Presbyterian, etc.), and allotments afforded for whatever sustainable groupings members may prefer (e.g. all 40ish, male, married, Anglican pastors; or disabled, teenage, Calvinistic girls), but the site as a whole would be inclusive of self-described participants.

This is what I always understood as the initial and guiding vision of Christian Forums, and it seems to me this is where Erwin’s heart has been, as has that of the general membership. It’s in the implementation that matters have gotten rather clouded and heated.

I don’t reason that a great proportion of CF’s difficulties have arisen with the clarity of this vision, but with its various implementations under distinctive characteristics of administering a discussion board under conflicting religious convictions. Some Roman Catholics may reason that Protestants are outside Mother Church and the true Body of Christ, some Mormons may consider that most so-called Christian groupings of the Church age are corrupt and apostate, some Reformed may consider the Roman Church is an antichrist, some Charismatic may consider that anyone failing to display the gift of tongues is lacking the true sign of the Holy Spirit, some Messianic may consider modern church ways under an overwhelming pagan influence, some conservatives may consider liberals unbiblical, some non-creedal may consider allegiance to any man-made creed an abominable conflict with allegiance to Christ, some Eastern Orthodox may consider Roman Catholics as well as Protestants as constraining God within a formulated box, some Atheist may consider any site exclusion from adequate representation as contrary to the basic teachings of Jesus and the Christian Bible; and while each of these and more has contributed to CF ills, I reason that most of CF’s difficulties have been fostered from inadequate guides in voluntary site administration – the site rules have been too vague, complicated, and disparately followed by volunteers running the site.

Properly administering a message board should not be a matter of one’s individual religious convictions or affiliations, nor some juggling act of balancing various religious or non-religious elements, but of clear courteous policy consistently applied throughout the site. It is the lack of clear courteous policy consistently applied that I consider contributory to the overwhelming percentage of CF’s site problems. We’ve allowed too many sectarian battles to interfere with what ought to be the much simpler process of site moderation and administration outside of sectarian considerations.

What ought details of Option 3 to look like and function? I like the models of ZacTak and Spherical Time. I would, however, emphasize a preference for consideration of inclusive moderator representation – that is, if a message board is going to allow for non-Christian membership, then it ought also to make allowance for non-Christian representation among it’s staff. Christian status should not be an element of site moderation where it is not also a restriction on site membership. Aptitude and ability of moderating is not restricted to the Christian faith, and rigid exclusion of participation in moderation for any otherwise capable segment of the membership will continue to be problematic if it is so restricted. Let the rule of law speak for itself. Imbed Christian concerns within the Rules themselves as the guiding element of Christian practice and belief. I agree that the site should remain a Christian site, but I do not agree that this necessitates an exclusion of non-Christians from the process of site moderation. As long as accountable Christian ‘governance’ of participation can be expressed and exemplified in the rule of comportment and treatment of others, and self-identifying markers can be inculcated within restricted fora (whether of age, gender, religious orientation, or subject matter), there should be no problem with having any segment of the membership represented on staff. Sure, there may be an initial grimace at non-Christian participation running contrary to elements of CF Christian ministry, pastoral shepherding, and/or some manner of CF cyber-church, but I reason that this is a false dichotomy. Non-Christians have contributed a wealth of service to CF already, just as they have to any Christian Bible one happens to have on hand. As much as some might desire it, CF cannot be a church with pastoral administration/service to its members – it is a message board with necessary restrictions on professional advice and pastoral care.

There will always be sectarian bias and debate if the site generally tries to define and make external distinctions of what qualifies as a Christian. If, as I would hope, areas of self-restricted posting are offered for Christians only, it would be much less problematic for these to also be self-determinative and qualified by additional criteria (such as Nicene, orthodox, Presbyterian, conservative, etc.).

- hopper/kib


PS: Of course, I like the Option 3 Erwin initially inaugurated as well, and we might do well to keep it in view:



 
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Inan3

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you surely owe me an apology

stranger,

I do apologize to you, not for the dissimilarities we have regarding the scriptures but for the attitudes in which I presented them. I was critical and rude. It's not so much that I felt critical of your perception of the scriptures but I was critical of your delivery and of what I perceive to be criticism and unfair accusation of other christians. Regardless, I have no place, in the Lord, to have an "attitude" of criticism toward you. You certainly have every right to your opinion, whether I find it offensive and/or incorrect. Whereas, no person, only God can judge the motives or attitudes of another, I will, thus, leave it to Him. I ask that you please forgive me and I commit to being more careful NOT to do it in the future. I would ask that you or anyone who might sense a critical "attitude" from me in the future, please bring it to my attention for I am not afraid to be accountable to my brethren.

To everyone else, in this post, I thank you for "bearing with me" because this is NOT the topic of this thread, but I felt it was publically that I was critical of stranger and that it was necessary to publically apologize to him. This is the end of this matter in this thread.

Sincerely,

Inan3
 
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RedTulipMom

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the problem is this...

WHOSE interpretation of scripture are we talking about????
 
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hopperace

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this discussion is STILL going on and on and on..
WHEN is Erwin gonna just make a decision??
I appreciate the desire for some closue, but on the other hand I've only just been invited to the party after being banned from the site for 4 months under the old regime. I really wish the new push for reform would have initially prioritized a similar invitation to excluded members to return to the site.

- hopper/kib
 
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Timothy

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the problem is this...

WHOSE interpretation of scripture are we talking about????
Mine. It's the only one that could possibly be right.

Just kidding. That seems to be the attitude of a whole bunch of people in this thread though.
 
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MeekOne

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Here, here! An intelligent post needs repeating.
 
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