What Would Evidence for God's Existence Be Like?

variant · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
I do think they should teach it in school for history and as a theory on the creation of the universe. Especially if they are teaching Greek mythology, which is religion that is still applied today with the "witchcraft" group I do believe.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with studying Christianity like we study Greek mythology.

Freodin · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
I do remember learning a great deal about Greek mythology in school, all throughout school. Was I ever taught about God? Nope.

Despite wether the lesson books include God or not, He will be there! Every child that follows Christ will be there to spread the word about God.
My daughter was in kindergarten last year and for story time she wanted to bring her children's bible so I let her. She came home saying they wouldn't let her read it and she got in trouble for bringing it because she was talking to her friends about it.know what I did? Sent her back with the Bible and told her to tell everyone how much she loves God. Because there is NOTHiNG wrong with anything she did.
No one will stop us from praising God and no one will stop us from declaring his name.

And I guess you also think that Allah will be there, and Ganesh and Odin... and every child that follows Buddha will be there to spread the word about how to reach nirwana.

You may have learned a lot about Greek mythology in school... but I am quite sure that in no case the teacher told you that this was the "Truth", or that you had a lot of co-students running around praising Zeus or "declaring his name" or telling you how much they loved their relationship with Apollon or Artemis.

But in a way I agree with you: you really should learn about God in schools! Even in the "listen children, I now tell you the truth about God" way.

As someone raised in a school system where religious eductation offered by religious groups is still compulsory, I can tell you that nothing creates atheists as fast as being forced to listen to this stuff in schools.

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

Lol my husband went to a Christian school and says that's the reason he never lost faith, that school. And he was only there for two years in elementary school but the school was so great it stuck and he was just talking about how great it was earlier today.

And freodin, I see how you desire that we all become atheists but have a problem when Christians try to convert you? That's down right laughable!

Freodin · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
And freodin, I see how you desire that we all become atheists but have a problem when Christians try to convert you? That's down right laughable!

I see how you desire to turn the whole world into a Christian theocratic dictatorship, and thus of course you have problems with people disagreeing with that goal.

The only thing that is laughable (or would be, if it weren't so tragic) is the mindset of religious people - especially Christians, especially your kind of - who are completely unable to envision anything outside of their own little bubble world.

Eudaimonist · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
I do remember learning a great deal about Greek mythology in school, all throughout school. Was I ever taught about God? Nope.

I never did regret being taught about God in private Catholic elementary school. It helped to make me the atheist I am today.

eudaimonia,

Mark

Archaeopteryx · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
Lol my husband went to a Christian school and says that's the reason he never lost faith, that school. And he was only there for two years in elementary school but the school was so great it stuck and he was just talking about how great it was earlier today.

And freodin, I see how you desire that we all become atheists but have a problem when Christians try to convert you? That's down right laughable!

I went to a religious school(s) for 13 years. Clearly it is no guarantee against atheism. I was devout while in school, though many of my friends were atheists.

Archaeopteryx · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
I do think they should teach it in school for history and as a theory on the creation of the universe. Especially if they are teaching Greek mythology, which is religion that is still applied today with the "witchcraft" group I do believe.

I think it is complete and total nonsense that this is the case. Either way though, my child wont be stopped from praising him, no matter what the school says.

Have you considered not indoctrinating? Perhaps, if Colter's approach has any merit, and the doctrines of your theology are true, she will independently arrive at those doctrines without any adult assistance.

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

Ouch, seems like I hit a nerve with you freodin? I never tried to convert you, I just give my opinion. There is a difference

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

My daughter loves her bible. She asks me to read it to her each night. She dressed as Mary for school last year when she got to choose any book character. Seems like my approach in parenting is working just fine. Especially since she's the sweetest kid anyone has seen that knows her.

When you raise your children on truth, they want to be lights themselves. Shame so many generations before raised their children on law and not grace.

Archaeopteryx · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
My daughter loves her bible. She asks me to read it to her each night. She dressed as Mary for school last year when she got to choose any book character. Seems like my approach in parenting is working just fine. Especially since she's the sweetest kid anyone has seen that knows her.

When you raise your children on truth, they want to be lights themselves. Shame so many generations before raised their children on law and not grace.

Why not allow her to find this "truth" for herself? If it is indeed truth, then surely she could find it independently, without parental influence?

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

Now you are asking me to censor my childs reading because you dont like the bible? She asks to read.
She saw me always reading my bible and wanted her own. I took her to the book store and let her pick it out herself. Now she asks me to read it. She takes it when she goes out of town.
But I should take this comfort away from her why again?

I didn't say I push the bible on her, I said she wants this. She sees it as something beautiful in her mothers life and wants it for herself. I must say she makes me one proud momma.

Archaeopteryx · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
Now you are asking me to censor my childs reading because you dont like the bible? She asks to read.

What if she asked you to read her the Quran?

Freodin · Feb 14, 2015

Archaeopteryx said:
What if she asked you to read her the Quran?

Quran? What's that? How would a child know of this book?

Oh, if she was born into a muslim family ... then we would be talking to a proud muslim mummy who told us how much her daugther loves the Quran.
(Just as an example: I knew a young muslim mother, who was quite upset about how her younger daughter didn't want to visit Quran school on a school-free day... she would rather sleep in.

Not like her older daughter... who was soo pious and studied the Quran all the time and was such a good daughter.)

But that cannot tell us anything: obviously, belief is a result of a direct experience of God... it has nothing to do with the parents.

stevevw · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
Lol my husband went to a Christian school and says that's the reason he never lost faith, that school. And he was only there for two years in elementary school but the school was so great it stuck and he was just talking about how great it was earlier today.

And freodin, I see how you desire that we all become atheists but have a problem when Christians try to convert you? That's down right laughable!

I can relate to that. I went to a catholic school when I was young but then we moved and I ended up in the public system. Later in life I recalled the lessons about God I learnt. Not just that something must have penetrated me as I always had this little thing inside me that kept calling me to God even though I was living a life without Him. I regard those years as having saved me from completely going down the road to hell as a seed had been planted.

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

stevevw said:
I can relate to that. I went to a catholic school when I was young but then we moved and I ended up in the public system. Later in life I recalled the lessons about God I learnt. Not just that something must have penetrated me as I always had this little thing inside me that kept calling me to God even though I was living a life without Him. I regard those years as having saved me from completely going down the road to hell as a seed had been planted.

That is how my husband explains it to me. I am happy that you were able to have that.

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

If she asked me to read her the Quaran I would. After all, these beliefs follow the God of Abraham, just turn to a different route when it comes to Jesus. My daughter has a personal relationship with Jesus so I am unafraid of her losing her faith. And if she did not have this relationship with Jesus I would still read the Quaran. It has historic and philosophic importance. I encourage learning in my home. I am unafraid of knowledge. If I was, my child would be home school already.

Freodin · Feb 14, 2015

kristina411 said:
Ouch, seems like I hit a nerve with you freodin? I never tried to convert you, I just give my opinion. There is a difference

Well, yes, this "I can make any kind of insulting statements about you and get away with it, because I am just giving my opinion" attitude is hitting a nerve with me.

And I have that nagging feeling that you really don't understand why that is.

I would get on quite well with people trying to convert me... I don't know. Most of these simply drop out when I start to ask the difficult questions.

xXLoveisGodXx · Feb 14, 2015

Ken-1122 said:
When they say "God is love" I don't think they are speaking literally, because love only exist in the context of human thought. If you are going to claim God only exists in the context of human thought, then you are saying he is no more real than Santa Clause, or Buggs Bunny. I think most theists will take issue with such a claim.

Ken

First of all, 'they' did not tell me anything. Jesus was asked point blank, " who is God" and his answer was "God is Love." It's quite literal.
I do not claim that love only exists in our 'minds'. I believe that Love exists in all things and is a measurable energy.
Let me now address the atheist, that refuses to believe in Love even though he believes in love. Lol....
Lets start by confirming that you do believe in love (lower case).
How can this be? You admit you believe in a yet unmeasurable, intangible idea that 'only exists in the human perception.' It does not appear on any periodic chart. It is not yet clinically tested and would not pass the test for scientific proof. Yet, you still believe.
You believe because you can feel it. It's real to you because you have experienced it first hand. You undoubtably have benefited from it, as have we all.
Now, I assume that you are unwilling to accept that there could be a God because it would mean that you are liable for your faults and mistakes. I think your stubbornness comes from the fear of condemnation. Is this a reasonable assumption, on some level?
So, what if I told you that there is no fear in the acceptance of Love. Love is all the things that you believe it is. Love does not get angry or condem. Love does not adhere to any formal religion or belief system. Love simply is love. There is no burden to carry, no mission statement, no terms of acceptance. You do not have to apply to be accepted.
In fact, even you, a self proclaimed atheist, have accepted love and all it's benefits into your heart. I know that once you experience love, you will never be happy without it. True?
I believe then, that you have Love in your heart. In my view, all you have to do now is be loving to others, and you have fulfilled your requirements for salvation. If you choose love on a daily basis you are a godly man whether you admit it or not. It doesn't matter whether you deny it or not, it simply is what it is.

kristina411 · Feb 14, 2015

See that's the thing... The problem is always "if Christians didn't speak with authority." Or "if Christians didn't try to convert" or "if Christians didn't try to force their views" but your very post said you would encourage this so long as its for an atheistic agenda to convert to atheism.

And there are no double standards on this board.

I said nothing about you apart from what I saw. I didn't even say anything bad about you, simply reiterated your own post.

I have never dropped from a discussion with you because any questions were difficult. They are not difficult at all. I dropped conversation with you because you can not handle the light being aimed at you. As per this conversation as well.

ETA: I laugh at double standards and hypocrisy. If you dont want me laughing, I'd suggest not using either of the two.

xXLoveisGodXx · Feb 14, 2015

Freodin said:
Well, yes, this "I can make any kind of insulting statements about you and get away with it, because I am just giving my opinion" attitude is hitting a nerve with me.

And I have that nagging feeling that you really don't understand why that is.

I would get on quite well with people trying to convert me... I don't know. Most of these simply drop out when I start to ask the difficult questions.

I'd be happy to address those difficult questions. Pose the one question that is the most difficult to believe.

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