What will/would you teach your kids...

Grace_of_God said:

Bellman,
Just thought I would let you know that I am through spending hours of my life responding to you. I am just repeating myself over and over again and, while you may have that much time on your hands, I do not. I am also through taking your bait and I'm through arguing with you. My kids WILL be raised as *I* see fit, not as you see fit. If that bothers you, then it is your problem. I am not going to change. Deal with it. You don't have to raise your children as I see fit just as I don't have to raise mine as you see fit. Case-closed, I am going no furthur into this whirlpool of endless repitition, with you.

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Great. Much easier to just avoid opinions that disagree with yours, rather than address them, and find out what possible ramifications your approach will have.

Your poor kids

Some facts:

- the US and the UK, the two western nations where the abstinence message is most prominently preached and supported, both have terrible teen pregnancy rates (53 births per 1000 teenagers)

- nations like Sweden and Denmark, which have dropped the abstinence preaching and instead promoted sex education including contraception, come in near the bottom of the list (7 births per 1000 teenagers)

- in 1975, in Sweden, recommendations of abstinence and sex-only-within-marriage were dropped, contraceptive education was made explicit, and a nationwide network of youth clinics was established specifically to provide confidential contraceptive advice and free contraceptives to young people. The result was Sweden's teen pregnancy rate dropping by 80% over the next 20 years.

- The Silver Ring Thing and similar programs actually increase the rate of teenage pregnancy (see Alba DiCenso et al, 15th June 2002. Interventions To Reduce Unintended Pregnancies Among Adolescents: Systematic Review Of Randomised Controlled Trials. British Medical Journal 324:1426)

- George Bush has done his bit to push the "abstinence only" line. When these programmes failed to reduce the teen birthrate, he instructed the US Centers for Disease Control to stop gathering data.

- Bush also forced them to drop their project identifying the sex education programmes which work, after they found that none of the successful ones were “abstinence-only”

- Bush's record as governor of Texas gives us a good indication of the success of these campaigns. He spent $10m on abstinence campaigns there, with the result that Texas has the 4th-highest rate of HIV infection in the Union, and the slowest decline of any state in the birthrate among 15-17 year-olds.

The above is a summary of many points made at:

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2004/05/11/waging-war-with-the-virgin-soldiers/

Sounds like Grace_of_God's practices won't exactly help her kids...in fact, it will harm them. Like I said, it is more important to her to force her religious beliefs on them than it is to protect them.

And, like I said, her poor kids

Spike~ said:

What they do and do not believe in is beyond your control.

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But that will not change what I TEACH them!

Spike~ said:

And why any parent would teach their child to hate is beyond me.

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I am not teaching them to "hate" anyone. I WILL teach them to despise sin though, yes. There IS a difference. Teaching them to hate a person or a creature and teaching them to hate sin, is very different. To say they are the same is like comparing apples with oranges.

armed2010 said:

In general internet etiquette all caps is known as yelling

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When I do caps, I am usually emphasizing words. That's how I do it. Deal.

armed2010 said:

And I never got nasty to the level that you are being

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I got defensive, you got nasty. There is no more arguement.

armed2010 said:

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You are good at showing your maturity though by sticking your tongue out at me. Good job *thumbs up*

Grace_of_God said:

But that will not change what I TEACH them!


I am not teaching them to "hate" anyone. I WILL teach them to despise sin though, yes. There IS a difference. Teaching them to hate a person or a creature and teaching them to hate sin, is very different. To say they are the same is like comparing apples with oranges.

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Yeah, just like the christian homophobes don't hate the sinner, just the sin...as they advocate denying gays civil rights.

The Bellman said:

Your poor kids

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You CAN'T finish without throwing in one last dig can you??

Do you really believe that a child a mature enough to tell the difference between a person and an action? When you're a kid, and another kid comes up to you and beats you up and takes your lunch money, you don't hate his action, you hate him. You're stance ignores the immaturaty of children. The fact that there have been so many school shootings is testimony to a child's immaturity and their innability to seperate the action from the person.

Bellman,

Also, do NOT talk about me. Feel free to talk to me, but do not EVER talk ABOUT me and through in insults while your doing it. You are much older than me, act it!

Spike~ said:

You're stance ignores the immaturaty of children.

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Actually my stance promotes the immaturity of children. Telling them not to have sex before marriage rather than sleeping around and contracting diseases and creating babies (many people who DO use contraception, do not avoid this) before they are old enough to be responsible IS showing that I think they should act like CHILDREN while they are children. I want my children playing with skipping ropes and marbles, not vibrators. Nor will I promote anything which I view as unhealthy and displeasing to God.

Hey now, I didn't play with a vibrator until I was married. My mother was very open with me about sex & everything that goes with it, & I never used a vibrator or was promiscuous. Out of all my friends & people I went to high school with, the ones who were careful & not sleeping around were always the ones whose parents taught them about sex & how to protect themselves. The ones who were very promiscuous & utterly "wild" were either the ones whose parents swore that "my child knows better, he/she would never do that, because I have taught them how to be good & righteous children" or the ones whose parents were so completely in denial that their kids were sexually maturing adolescents that they simply ignored what was going on.
I also had friends whose parents didn't believe in birth control or premarital sex that ended up pregnant, married, highschool drop-outs, more kids, then divorced within a span of a few years. I had one friend whose Daddy made her boyfriend marry her after they got pregnant when she was barelyfourteen so that he could "make an honest woman out of her". Ihad friends who married when they were 16 just so they could sleep with their girl/boyfriends & be "right with God".
Then there were those who were forced to be perfect throughout most of high school-forcefed their parents' relgious doctrine, not allowed to ever go anywhere or do anything-who hit that magic age of 16 & went buck-wild. Some of those kids never spoke to their parents again.
I think that cutting your children off from the outside world by having them in an "ultra-Conservative" village with no electricity, not teaching them anything except what you think they "need", not allowing them social lives, & forcing relgion on them is just plain horrifying. What are they going to do when they stumble blindly & wholly unprepared out into the real world? That eerily reminds me of Carrie....Yikes.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

Grace_of_God said:

Actually my stance promotes the immaturity of children. Telling them not to have sex before marriage rather than sleeping around and contracting diseases and creating babies (many people who DO use contraception, do not avoid this) before they are old enough to be responsible IS showing that I think they should act like CHILDREN while they are children. I want my children playing with skipping ropes and marbles, not vibrators. Nor will I promote anything which I view as unhealthy and displeasing to God.

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Eh? I address the issue of you teaching your kids to hate, not the issue of sex or contraception. So please respond to my posts in the context that they were written in.

And on a side note, teaching your kids about contraception is not the same as teaching them to have pre-marital sex, nor explicity providing a way for them too. Like I said before, knowledge of contraception will extend into their married lives as well. Not all ppl want to get married when they are 20, and start having kids right off the bat. Matter of fact, that can build a lot of resentment in later years and can break up a marriage. Everyone should experiance the joys of bachelorhood for at least a few years before settling down.

Think about it. You're 20. You graduated high school only 2 years ago. There's a whole world out there for you to see. And you have an obligation to yourself to live your life first, before settling down and having kids. If you don't, then you are only depriving yourself of so many great things.

And the vibrator comment really caught my eye. Kids are horny, very, very horny. I'm 17, I've never been more hornier. And a young woman yourself, I'm sure you still remember the urges, matter of fact, I bet you still have them. And these urges need to be satisfied. Masturbation is a great way of doing that, harmlessly. I've gone long periods of time without "satisfying" myself, and it's driven me nuts. And I think it's been shown that repressing sexual feelings and desires for too long can lead to future sexual problems.

And it can stop them from having sex. I'm currently in a long distance relationship. I also have pretty little honies around me quite often. Yet for 2 years, I have abstaned from sex. If I didn't have my occasional release, I doupt I would have been so succsessful.

And as for you saying that you want you kids to live like kids, I agree. Every child should have the good, innocent childhood some of us here never had. But a person who knows how to hate, losses his innocence.

Grace_of_God said:

When I do caps, I am usually emphasizing words. That's how I do it. Deal.

THIS IS HOW I TALK, IM NOT YELLING, ITS JUST NORMAL CHATTING FOR ME, DEAL WITH IT!!!!11111ONE

I got defensive, you got nasty. There is no more arguement.

4 out of 5 dentists agree that your posts were far more nasty than anything I have posted in my entire stay here at christianforums


You are good at showing your maturity though by sticking your tongue out at me. Good job *thumbs up*

Yes, and it was extremely mature to blow your stack, and over the internet of all places even. Good job Ms.Mature

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Grace_of_God said:

You CAN'T finish without throwing in one last dig can you??

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It's called debating. It includes discussing the opinions of others. Deal.

Grace_of_God said:

Also, do NOT talk about me. Feel free to talk to me, but do not EVER talk ABOUT me and through in insults while your doing it. You are much older than me, act it!

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If you don't want to be talked about, don't go on a public form.

And stop whining.

Grace_of_God said:

Actually my stance promotes the immaturity of children. Telling them not to have sex before marriage rather than sleeping around and contracting diseases and creating babies (many people who DO use contraception, do not avoid this) before they are old enough to be responsible IS showing that I think they should act like CHILDREN while they are children. I want my children playing with skipping ropes and marbles, not vibrators. Nor will I promote anything which I view as unhealthy and displeasing to God.

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So...16 and 17 year olds "playing with skipping ropes and marbles". That's nice and healthy for them. Except...one day they'll realise that they're not children anymore, and that good ol' mom has taught them nothing with which they can cope with the real world. And then they'll end up pregnant because they heard at school that you won't get pregnant if you do it standing up, and they believed it because mom taught them nothing about safe sex. And mom will say "I TOLD you not to have sex!" which will be a huge help.

Hey, but mom's religious views would have been forced on another generation, so it can't be all bad, right?

Well, I am a bit late here on this one. I still stand with promoting Christian views and Christianity to my children. They will learn about sex, drugs, protection, how to swim and so forth. They will not be sheltered and kept in the dark at anytime. They will NOT however, be taught to practice all the sex they want and practice drugs just so they have a better understanding of what lies ahead of them.
And in my opinion, Mr. Bellman's views are not based on any form of religeon other than what suits his own mind's ability to rationalize and understand. Hence the lack of God and/or Christian views in his heart. Not picking on you Mr. Bell, just reading some of your posts leave one to believe that your views and outlook of raising children are a bit "unorthodox?" (for lack of better word I guess......

Bellmans views are based on truth, you did see the statistics he posted, right?

Well, seeing as how Bellman's an Atheist, it isn't a big surprise that he isn't going to teach and promote teaching a religious morality that science, logic, and common sence all say isn't smart. Bellman and I have allready shown how not teaching kids the truths of sex only hurts them.

No offence, but I really hope you never have, or are responsible for, children.

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Although I disagree with Grace_of_God on her ideas, that was extremely rude.

That they can't marry their brother or sister.