What/where is purgatory?

WarriorAngel · May 13, 2005

St. Paul in the Second Letter to Timothy prayed for a friend of his, Onesiphorous, that the Lord might "grant unto him that he might find mercy on that final day, the Day of Judgment" (2 Tim. l:16ff).

NothingButTheBlood · May 13, 2005

I don't believe in purgatory. I have never seen any Bible evidence of it yet. I believed saved or lost. There is no well you believe but your still not good enough to get in. Being saved means just that. Salvation is instant.

WashedClean · May 13, 2005

Metanoia02 said:
Protestants believe in Purgatory, they just don't have a name for it.

We do? That's news to me!

Metanoia02 said:
We also know that in order to be in the presence of the Almighty, this tendency towards sin must some how be removed.

Uhmmm... yeah, and Jesus accomplished that at the cross. Praise God!

Let me ask you something. If everyone has to go through Purgatory, then why did Jesus have to die? Just have everyone go there first before moving on to heaven.

FullyMT · May 13, 2005

There is no well you believe but your still not good enough to get in. Being saved means just that. Salvation is instant.

If you are in Purgatory you WILL be in heaven. It is not a place of judgement. In purgatory=just a few skips and a jump into heaven, but your soul must first be purified, "nothing unclean shall enter heaven".
That's my 2 cents in this thread, now I have to get back to finishing my hw.

WarriorAngel · May 13, 2005

Well, look at the whole of the world...we know FEW make it directly to heaven..BUT Christians make up an abundance on earth...

SO, if we know the silver is purified, by heat, then God allows humans to become pure for heaven.

BTW......WHO here can explain WHY {AS quoted} Paul would pray for his dead friend??

Salvation is not always instant...
FOR we are told thru the whole Bible and especially from the Apostles how to avoid sin.

TO suggest Christ did all the work, and we take the reward, is like not having to work to ensure we may obtain the gift of salvation.

BUT we must...or the New Testament would be moot point.

THE NT should read...
Jesus died, believe, you are saved..and dont worry about sin.

Metanoia02 · May 13, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by: Metanoia02 We also know that in order to be in the presence of the Almighty, this tendency towards sin must some how be removed.

WashedClean said:
Uhmmm... yeah, and Jesus accomplished that at the cross. Praise God!

So you no longer sin nor have the tendency to sin? If He accomplished what you say He accomplished, you would never sin again.

Metanoia02 · May 13, 2005

WashedClean said:
Let me ask you something. If everyone has to go through Purgatory, then why did Jesus have to die?

To save us from eternal damnation, Hell

WashedClean · May 13, 2005

Metanoia02 said:
Quote: Originally Posted by: Metanoia02 We also know that in order to be in the presence of the Almighty, this tendency towards sin must some how be removed.

So you no longer sin nor have the tendency to sin? If He accomplished what you say He accomplished, you would never sin again.

Of course I sin. I'm still human. But I'm aware of my sin and repent. And when I confess my sins, I'm forgiven. Not because I deserve it, but because of my relationship to Jesus Christ. When I sin, God sees it as the first time I ever sinned. He separates my sin as the East is from the West, may He forever be praised!

Jesus accomplished my forgiveness. He washed me clean. It's not my own merits, but by his blood.

Metanoia02 said:
To save us from eternal damnation, Hell

So if Jesus accomplished this, then why the need for purgatory????

WarriorAngel · May 13, 2005

WE all sin, so no one is actually worthy of God...BUT because Christ died, we can accomplish going to heaven, because He opened the gates...BUT it never says that we shall go to heaven with sin.

There are serious sins, and then there are not so serious sins.
Catholics call them venial and mortal.

IN order for anyone to receive the gift of Heaven, we cannot have sins on our soul when we stand b4 God.

NOW we can 'confess' and what have you...BUT what if you do not have time??

What if you sinned, and fell asleep and died? Or sinned and had a car accident? Should you be thrown to hell?
Or should you be given a purging of your sins?

I am of course referring to venial sins; gossip, cussing, lying, or a heap of other sins we havent yet sought forgiveness for...but are NOT quite deadly enough to remove us from God's presense entirely. BUT that which God shall strike like the silver to the fire, to remove imperfections. {Purging a needle by fire makes it sterile}

That is the mercy of the Lord.

Otherwise, we the imprefect could not accept Christ's gift, since few are ever received into heaven directly.

AGAIN...WHY did PAUL pray for his dead friend?

God Child · May 13, 2005

I didn't know paul prayed for his dead friends...where's that at???

Hey metanoia02 is your avitar a pic of you???

WashedClean · May 14, 2005

God Child said:
I didn't know paul prayed for his dead friends...where's that at???

Yes, I'd like to know that also.

God Child said:
Hey metanoia02 is your avitar a pic of you???

I believe that's Charles "Chuck" Colson. He was jailed for his involvement in Watergate. Received Jesus Christ as his personal savior since then and now has a thriving prison ministry. Correct me if that's not him!

Metanoia02 · May 14, 2005

WashedClean said:
Of course I sin. I'm still human. But I'm aware of my sin and repent. And when I confess my sins, I'm forgiven. Not because I deserve it, but because of my relationship to Jesus Christ. When I sin, God sees it as the first time I ever sinned. He separates my sin as the East is from the West, may He forever be praised!

Jesus accomplished my forgiveness. He washed me clean. It's not my own merits, but by his blood.

So if Jesus accomplished this, then why the need for purgatory????

To remove our inclination toward sin, so we can be in Heaven with God. Remember you will not continue to sin in Heaven, something must happen between now and then. This is made possible by Jesus Christ and his sacrifice not by something we do by ourselves.

Metanoia02 · May 14, 2005

WashedClean said:
I believe that's Charles "Chuck" Colson. He was jailed for his involvement in Watergate. Received Jesus Christ as his personal savior since then and now has a thriving prison ministry. Correct me if that's not him!

No, it is a photograph of St Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei.

NothingButTheBlood · May 14, 2005

This is the verse used to show Paul prayed for his dead friend:

St. Paul in the Second Letter to Timothy prayed for a friend of his, Onesiphorous, that the Lord might "grant unto him that he might find mercy on that final day, the Day of Judgment" (2 Tim. l:16ff).

The KJV says this:

2 Timothy 1:16: The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17: But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
18: The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

My impression is he hoped Onesiphorus was saved and by in the day he means at this death.

I also have never seen in the Bible a quanitator before it discusses sin. As far as I've been able to tell they all carry the same rank. Sin is sin to God. He can't let anyone sin go through the gates.

WarriorAngel · May 14, 2005

NothingButTheBlood said:
This is the verse used to show Paul prayed for his dead friend:

St. Paul in the Second Letter to Timothy prayed for a friend of his, Onesiphorous, that the Lord might "grant unto him that he might find mercy on that final day, the Day of Judgment" (2 Tim. l:16ff).

The KJV says this:

2 Timothy 1:16: The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17: But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
18: The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

My impression is he hoped Onesiphorus was saved and by in the day he means at this death.

I also have never seen in the Bible a quanitator before it discusses sin. As far as I've been able to tell they all carry the same rank. Sin is sin to God. He can't let anyone sin go through the gates.

Onesiphorus is spoken of as NOW dead; he was an official of the Church at Ephesus.
18 May the Lord grant him to FIND mercy from the Lord ON THAT DAY.

ON that Day, speaks of future context. And judgement day.

{I quote the NCE, New Catholic Edition}....BUT the other quote already rendered, is closer to the 'translation'...however both suggest 'judgement day.'
NOT the day...past, of his death.

Svt4Him · May 15, 2005

This should be in g/a as it clearly is a matter of correctly dividing the word of God.

heron · May 15, 2005

..but you can't discuss scriptural issues without some amount of apologetics.

WashedClean · May 15, 2005

Metanoia02 said:
No, it is a photograph of St Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei.

I stand corrected. He sure looks like Chuck Colson (below)!

Guess we should have captions...

SoulFly51 · May 16, 2005

JAIN said:
I was just wondering about purgatory. I do not understand it, and I just want to know why people think that it exists, and why it "needs" to exist.
I would also like to know where it is in the Bible, because I have not yet been able to locate anything about it.

Thanks!

Short answer: there's no such thing as purgatory.

What/where is purgatory?

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