What supersedes the golden rule?

dvduval · Oct 26, 2015

So straightforward question ...
Which Christian values or beliefs come before the golden rule?

SkyWriting · Oct 26, 2015

dvduval said:
So straightforward question ...
Which Christian values or beliefs come before the golden rule?

Not possible.

11 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children,
how much more will your Father who is in heaven give what is good to those who ask Him!
12 "In everything, therefore, treat people the same way you want them to treat you,
for this is the Law and the Prophets.

Yeshuas_My_Freedom · Oct 26, 2015

Bit of a quandary if you happen on a [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse].

Soyeong · Oct 26, 2015

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

Jesus loved us much more than we love ourselves, so he set an even higher standard for us to follow for how we should love others.

ViaCrucis · Oct 26, 2015

dvduval said:
So straightforward question ...
Which Christian values or beliefs come before the golden rule?

None that I'm aware of, with the understanding that the golden rule is an extension/summary of the Great Commandment.

The Great Commandment in Christianity is "Love the Lord your God with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength. And love your neighbor as yourself."

There is no higher rule or commandment then this, as Jesus says, "On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." (Matthew 22:40)

-CryptoLutheran

Sketcher · Oct 27, 2015

I don't know that what I would do in the general sense would change, but how I would do it might when considering other people's needs and quirks.

Nithavela · Oct 27, 2015

I guess direct divine commandment supersedes it. Like "eradicate all the heathen tribes and take their land and virgins".

Dave-W · Oct 27, 2015

Soyeong said:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.
Jesus loved us much more than we love ourselves, so he set an even higher standard for us to follow for how we should love others.

Well said. The golden rule "Do to others as you would have them do to you;" falls apart if you want to be abused or killed. Even the 2nd greatest commandment "And you shall love your neighbor as yourself;" falls apart if you are suicidal.

In addition to Jn 13.34 I would add Deut 6.5: You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

danielkibby · Oct 27, 2015

If by the golden rule you mean treating others the way you want to be treated, loving others; loving God supersedes that.

"But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you."

Seeking to be more righteous, more like Jesus comes before all things and in effect of that we are more loving towards others, even the more difficult to love through his example.

For me where I see people tend to get lost is around the area of love and what it means to love others. The world gives us some strange messages with promiscuity mascarading as intimacy, cohabitation being sold as marriage and happiness being acquired through financial gain.

I like to use the analogy of a fat kid when I explain love to people and the fact that it isn't always saying yes or rowing our boat merrily down the stream.

It you have an overweight child and they enjoy eating chocolate all day long but it's causing them to be obese and leading to health problems, are you being loving by giving them chocolate?

rapturesc · Oct 27, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
Well said. The golden rule "Do to others as you would have them do to you;" falls apart if you want to be abused or killed. Even the 2nd greatest commandment "And you shall love your neighbor as yourself;" falls apart if you are suicidal.]

If you are suicidal you are not loving yourself or your neigbour. So the golden rule wouldn't be falling apart.

Dave-W · Oct 27, 2015

rapturesc said:
If you are suicidal you are not loving yourself or your neigbour. So the golden rule wouldn't be falling apart.

The golden rule says nothing about love.

Matt 7.12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

rapturesc · Oct 27, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
The golden rule says nothing about love.

Matt 7.12 “So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets."

It is rephrased elsewhere as love your neighbour as yourself.

Noxot · Oct 27, 2015

the rule before the golden is the Spirit which generated such a saying.

Prov 16:16 (YLT)
To get wisdom--how much better than gold, And to get understanding to be chosen than silver!

Deut 8:2-3 (YLT)
and thou hast remembered all the way which Jehovah thy God hath caused thee to go these forty years in the wilderness, in order to humble thee to try thee, to know that which is in thy heart, whether thou dost keep His commands or not. `And He doth humble thee, and cause thee to hunger and doth cause thee to eat the manna (which thou hast not known, even thy fathers have not known), in order to cause thee to know that not by bread alone doth man live, but by every produce of the mouth of Jehovah man doth live.

Matt 6:19-26 (YLT)
`Treasure not up to yourselves treasures on the earth, where moth and rust disfigure, and where thieves break through and steal, but treasure up to yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth disfigure, and where thieves do not break through nor steal, for where your treasure is, there will be also your heart. `The lamp of the body is the eye, if, therefore, thine eye may be perfect, all thy body shall be enlightened, but if thine eye may be evil, all thy body shall be dark; if, therefore, the light that is in thee is darkness--the darkness, how great! `None is able to serve two lords, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will hold to the one, and despise the other; ye are not able to serve God and Mammon. `Because of this I say to you, be not anxious for your life, what ye may eat, and what ye may drink, nor for your body, what ye may put on. Is not the life more than the nourishment, and the body than the clothing? look to the fowls of the heaven, for they do not sow, nor reap, nor gather into storehouses, and your heavenly Father doth nourish them; are not ye much better than they?

Nithavela said:
I guess direct divine commandment supersedes it. Like "eradicate all the heathen tribes and take their land and virgins".

if we would fulfill this commandment according to the divine comprehension of it rather than according to the blind eyes of the fallen aspects of the world we would indeed find that it is a divine commandment, but when humans don't know God they end up worshiping the devil aka the god of this world. this command is to be understood in an self-reflecting manner and has to do with the human heart and the struggle of good and evil therein.... which ofc the entire law spoken of by God that sometimes appears to be crude and unworthy are merely the cloak which hides the naked and bare truth of the innocent Spirit who does not know evil. the verses I quoted prove my point quite clearly but false humanity does not have much divine faith or wisdom.

asherahSamaria · Oct 27, 2015

One of he earliest instances of it appears to be from the Mahabharata, the ancient epic of India, of around 800 BC, attributed to Vidura.

Yeshuas_My_Freedom · Oct 27, 2015

Soyeong said:
John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another.

Jesus loved us much more than we love ourselves, so he set an even higher standard for us to follow for how we should love others.

When scripture tells us that God does not hear the prayers of sinners, maybe those scriptures in context, and since Yeshua was speaking to his Disciples at the time he gave that commandment, are giving a directive as pertains to members of the church.

Foxhole87 · Oct 27, 2015

Dave-W · Oct 27, 2015

rapturesc said:
It is rephrased elsewhere as love your neighbour as yourself.

no - that is the 2nd great commandment. It is not the golden rule.

Matt 22.39 and Mark 12.31 quoting Leviticus 19:18

The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’

In the Hebrew it is tied to the first great commandment by the first word:
V'ahavta - "and you shall love..."

Most english editions leave off the "and."

Dave-W · Oct 27, 2015

Yeshuas_My_Freedom said:
When scripture tells us that God does not hear the prayers of sinners

Where does scripture teach that?

If that was true then no one could be saved.

Noxot · Oct 27, 2015

DaveW-Ohev said:
Where does scripture teach that?

If that was true then no one could be saved.

we could understand such a saying by Gods own goodness in that sinners pray for sinful things thus God will not hear them for their own sake.

Lulav · Oct 27, 2015

dvduval said:
So straightforward question ...
Which Christian values or beliefs come before the golden rule?

Loving G-d always comes first and foremost, loving your neighbor means nothing if you don't Love G-d.

What supersedes the golden rule?

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