What should I pay attention to if I want to know whether a given piece of text is divinely inspired?

SabbathBlessings said:

It should be, the scripture is Gods Word and what we know we can truth.

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.

Click to expand...

Take care, SB.

anna ~ grace said:

Take care, SB.

Click to expand...

What does this photo represent and not sure how it relates to providing context to your claim. If you don’t want to discuss it thats fine, but its only fair if you are going to make such statements about an entire denomination to provide some sort of scripture evidence of error. Take care

SabbathBlessings said:

What does this photo represent and not sure how it relates to providing context to your claim. If you don’t want to discuss it thats fine, but its only fair if you are going to make such statements about an entire denomination to provide some sort of scripture evidence of error. Take care

Click to expand...

Hey, SB. No, I don’t want to debate. I think, the best way for anyone to come to a conclusion either way would be, instead of Bible-verse sparring, to do some research on history. The histories of Millerism, Restorationism, the Great Awakening, and further back, on the histories of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches. It’s a journey you’re going to have to look outside of the Bible to understand or undertake, and not everyone has the interest in that.

God bless you, and take care.

Also, I like you guys, and the SDA folks on here are generally kind, and decent.

anna ~ grace said:

Hey, SB. No, I don’t want to debate. I think, the best way for anyone to come to a conclusion either way would be, instead of Bible-verse sparring, to do some research on history. The histories of Millerism, Restorationism, the Great Awakening, and further back, on the histories of the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Churches. It’s a journey you’re going to have to look outside of the Bible to understand or undertake, and not everyone has the interest in that.

God bless you, and take care.

Click to expand...

I actually find Church history fascinating and spent some time learning about the some of the things you mentioned. But when it comes to doctrine the only thing we can trust is God’s written for us in the holy scriptures.

Paul warned us in scripture what happens shortly after his departure:

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them." Acts 20:28-30

We have scripture predicting that God’s Sabbath day would be changed (and not by God) Daniel 7:25 "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. " Daniel 7:25 The Sabbath day is the only law (4th commandment) that is also a time (every seventh day) and was changed as predicted.

Quote from the Roman Catholic Church;

A. Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her; —she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority.
—Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism; New York in 1857, page 174

Deny the authority of the Church and you have no adequate or reasonable explanation or justification for the substitution of Sunday for Saturday in the Third - Protestant Fourth - Commandment of God... The Church is above the Bible, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact.'
—Catholic Record, September 1, 1923.

I do not believe the the church is above the Bible and someone else wanted to be above our Creator and Savior.

I do appreciate the fact the Roman Catholic Church recognizes that the Seventh day Adventist church is correct on our biblical doctrine but no one has the authority to change a commandment of God, personally written by our Creator. God tells us He changes not. The Holy Spirit is given to help us obey God's commandments, not change them. Acts 5:32, John 14:15-18

The [Roman Catholic] Church changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday by right of the divine, infallible authority given to her by her founder, Jesus Christ. The Protestant claiming the Bible to be the only guide of faith, has no warrant for observing Sunday. In this matter the Seventh-day Adventist is the only consistent Protestant.
—The Catholic Universe Bulletin, August 14, 1942, p. 4.

God bless

TruthSeek3r said:

Epistemologically speaking, when a Christian is faced with a given piece of text, manuscript, book, etc., how does he or she go about deciding whether the material at hand is divinely inspired or not? What features of the text itself, or about its origin, or about whatever might be relevant do Christians pay attention to in order to decide if the piece of text they have in front of them was divinely inspired? For example, let's say someone is handing out cards with quotes from the Book of Mormon, and I receive one. What should I do in order to decide if the quote I received is divinely inspired?

Click to expand...

1. Always compare doctrine that you find being promote with scripture. "Sola Scriptura testing" of all doctrine as we see in Acts 17:11. Anyone who tries to give you "other avenues" for deciding is often "pulling a fast one".

2. When Mormon's come to my home they often ask that I read something that is not from the Bible and then ask "how I feel about it". That is tell-tale.

3. The Book of Mormon was written by an anabaptist minister "Samuel Spaulding" as a fictional "Pilgrim's progress" book . As an example of how "Anti-Mormon" the Spaulding's text is - it has the strongest condemnation of plural marriages as compared to the Bible.

The manuscript was purchased by people associated with Joseph Smith after Spaulding died. It has very little "Mormon" doctrine in it so right off the bat Mormons will ask that you "be impressed" by the book of Mormon but then switch you over to "Perl of Great Price" or "Doctrine and Covenants" (books that were actually authored by Joseph Smith) - to get their Mormon doctrine spelled out.

4. Here is an example of a commentary on the life of Christ. Commentaries in general do not claim to be inspired but rather - very good Christian reading.
The Desire of Ages

Many Seventh-day Adventists consider this book to not only be a good commentary on the life of Christ but also the work of inspiration - while many other readers just accept it is a great commentary.

Whether or not you consider a commentary to "also" be the work of "inspiration" depends on your view of the Bible and how a given text compares with what you understand the Bible to teach in terms of being in harmony with it or at odds with it.

TruthSeek3r said:

What about deuterocanonical books?

Click to expand...

The NT church does not appear to have considered them to be inspired/canonical and they were not even written by Christians. But there are some cases where those books get quoted from in the NT.

So they have a few main problems.
1. Can't be OT since the Jews were the authors and compilers of the OT text - not Christians and those books are not Christian - they are Jewish.
2. Can't be NT since they are OT Jewish writings. Nobody puts them in the NT
3. The authors are unknown in many cases - though they make false claims often about who their author is.
4. and the content of anything from before time of Christ appears to have changed over time.

TruthSeek3r said:

speaking, when a Christian is faced with a given piece of text, manuscript, book, etc., how does he or she go about deciding whether the material at hand is divinely inspired or not?

Click to expand...

Look to the testimony of the Church which Christ established, and to which he gave authority to teach in his name.

chilehed said:

Look to the testimony of the Church which Christ established, and to which he gave authority to teach in his name.

Click to expand...

Best answer. I should have given this answer.

anna ~ grace said:

Hey, Camper. Through my own studies of Early Church history, the Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy, Soteriology, Restorationism, Revivalism, and prophetic claimants of the Americas.

And in light of this, reading the claims, beliefs, and writings of Ellen G. White.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply

Lets agree to disagree on your opinion

Original Happy Camper said:

Thanks for the reply

Lets agree to disagree on your opinion

Click to expand...

That sounds fair. God bless you, and thank you for your charity, and kindness.

TruthSeek3r said:

Epistemologically speaking, when a Christian is faced with a given piece of text, manuscript, book, etc., how does he or she go about deciding whether the material at hand is divinely inspired or not? What features of the text itself, or about its origin, or about whatever might be relevant do Christians pay attention to in order to decide if the piece of text they have in front of them was divinely inspired? For example, let's say someone is handing out cards with quotes from the Book of Mormon, and I receive one. What should I do in order to decide if the quote I received is divinely inspired?

Click to expand...

The historic witness of the Church attests to a limited number of books being divinely inspired, we call these books, collected together into a singular canon of sacred scripture, the Bible. The term "Bible" is taken from the Latin biblia, itself borrowed from the Greek βιβλία (biblia), plural for "books", so our term for the Holy Scriptures is simply "The Books" (Biblia, Bible) or "The Holy Books" (Sacra Biblia, Holy Bible).

The development and evolution of the Biblical Canon is long and complicated. But by and large what we call the Old and New Testament Canons were pretty well established from very early on, with only certain books being disputed.

There's virtually no dispute any longer over the New Testament Canon, we all share the same 27 books. But there is still a continued dispute over what are called the Deuterocanonical books, roughly corresponding to the books found in the ancient Septuagint but which don't show up in what eventually became the Jewish Bible or Tanakh.

The Deuterocanonicals are primarily a point of dispute between Catholic and Orthodox Christians who accept these books as Canonical Scripture, and Protestant Christians who instead call these books "The Apocrypha" and which historically were found in an intertestamental appendix in Protestant Bibles rather than in the Old Testament properly. This disagreement between Catholics and Protestants goes back to the Protestant Reformation and continues into the present.

So simply put, we know which books are divinely inspired because they are in the Bible; because these are the books--the only books--which the Christian Church has ever accepted as divinely inspired.

-CryptoLutheran

chilehed said:

Look to the testimony of the Church which Christ established, and to which he gave authority to teach in his name.

Click to expand...

I don't think there is any scripture that points to a specific denomination. God's church is based on those believing God's Word and what was taught by Jesus as our example.

chilehed said:

Look to the testimony of the Church which Christ established, and to which he gave authority to teach in his name.

Click to expand...

There is no specific church that you refer to mentioned anywhere in the Bible. Please don't derail this thread with sidetracks such as Peter being "the first Pope", the Catholic church being "the first church", etc.

TruthSeek3r said:

And we can trust the Christian Church because ... ?

Click to expand...

Because we're Christians who confess in the Creed, "We believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church".

-CryptoLutheran

comes to mind.

TruthSeek3r said:

Can I apply this test with any other book? For example, If I want to know whether deuterocanonical books are inspired, can I apply them to my life and see if they come to life for me?

Or what about the Book of Mormon? Can I apply the Book of Mormon to my life and see if it comes to life for me?

Click to expand...

The BOM contains scriptures from KJV copied. So, those texts no doubt can be applied to your life. Try applying this to your life.

CHAPTER 2

The Jaredites prepare for their journey to a promised land—It is a choice land whereon men must serve Christ or be swept off—The Lord talks to the brother of Jared for three hours—The Jaredites build barges—The Lord asks the brother of Jared to propose how the barges will be lighted.

1 And it came to pass that Jared and his brother, and their families, and also the afriends of Jared and his brother and their families, went down into the valley which was northward, (and the name of the valley was bNimrod, being called after the mighty hunter) with their cflocks which they had gathered together, male and female, of every kind.

2 And they did also lay snares and catch afowls of the air; and they did also prepare a vessel, in which they did carry with them the fish of the waters.

3 And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them aswarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, bseeds of every kind.

4 And it came to pass that when they had come down into the valley of Nimrod the Lord came down and talked with the brother of Jared; and he was in a acloud, and the brother of Jared saw him not.

5 And it came to pass that the Lord commanded them that they should ago forth into the wilderness, yea, into that quarter where there never had man been. And it came to pass that the Lord did go before them, and did talk with them as he stood in a bcloud, and gave cdirections whither they should travel.

6 And it came to pass that they did travel in the wilderness, and did abuild bbarges, in which they did cross many waters, being directed continually by the hand of the Lord.

7 And the Lord would not suffer that they should stop beyond the sea in the wilderness, but he would that they should come forth even unto the aland of promise, which was choice above all other lands, which the Lord God had bpreserved for a righteous people.

8 And he had sworn in his wrath unto the brother of Jared, that whoso should possess this land of promise, from that time henceforth and forever, should aserve him, the true and only God, or they should be bswept off when the fulness of his wrath should come upon them.

9 And now, we can behold the decrees of God concerning this land, that it is a land of promise; and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall serve God, or they shall be aswept off when the fulness of his bwrath shall come upon them. And the fulness of his wrath cometh upon them when they are cripened in iniquity.

10 For behold, this is a land which is choice above all other lands; wherefore he that doth possess it shall serve God or shall be aswept off; for it is the everlasting decree of God. And it is not until the bfulness of iniquity among the children of the land, that they are cswept off.

11 And this cometh unto you, O ye aGentiles, that ye may know the decrees of God—that ye may repent, and not continue in your iniquities until the fulness come, that ye may not bring down the fulness of the bwrath of God upon you as the inhabitants of the land have hitherto done.

12 Behold, this is a choice land, and whatsoever nation shall possess it shall be afree from bondage, and from captivity, and from all other nations under heaven, if they will but bserve the God of the land, who is Jesus Christ, who hath been manifested by the things which we have written.

13 And now I proceed with my record; for behold, it came to pass that the Lord did bring Jared and his brethren forth even to that great sea which divideth the lands. And as they came to the sea they pitched their tents; and they called the name of the place aMoriancumer; and they dwelt in btents, and dwelt in tents upon the seashore for the space of four years.

14 And it came to pass at the end of four years that the Lord came again unto the brother of Jared, and stood in a cloud and atalked with him. And for the space of three hours did the Lord talk with the brother of Jared, and bchastened him because he remembered not to ccall upon the name of the Lord.

15 And the brother of Jared repented of the evil which he had done, and did call upon the name of the Lord for his brethren who were with him. And the Lord said unto him: I will forgive thee and thy brethren of their sins; but thou shalt not sin any more, for ye shall remember that my aSpirit will not always bstrive with man; wherefore, if ye will sin until ye are fully ripe ye shall be cut off from the presence of the Lord. And these are my cthoughts upon the land which I shall give you for your inheritance; for it shall be a land dchoice above all other lands.

16 And the Lord said: Go to work and build, after the manner of abarges which ye have hitherto built. And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did go to work, and also his brethren, and built barges after the manner which they had built, according to the binstructions of the Lord. And they were small, and they were light upon the water, even like unto the lightness of a fowl upon the water.

17 And they were built after a manner that they were exceedingly atight, even that they would hold water like unto a dish; and the bottom thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the sides thereof were tight like unto a dish; and the ends thereof were peaked; and the top thereof was tight like unto a dish; and the length thereof was the length of a tree; and the door thereof, when it was shut, was tight like unto a dish.

18 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared cried unto the Lord, saying: O Lord, I have performed the work which thou hast commanded me, and I have made the barges according as thou hast directed me.

19 And behold, O Lord, in them there is no light; whither shall we steer? And also we shall perish, for in them we cannot breathe, save it is the air which is in them; therefore we shall perish.

20 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: Behold, thou shalt make a hole in the top, and also in the bottom; and when thou shalt suffer for air thou shalt unstop the hole and receive air. And if it be so that the water come in upon thee, behold, ye shall stop the hole, that ye may not perish in the flood.

21 And it came to pass that the brother of Jared did so, according as the Lord had commanded.

22 And he cried again unto the Lord saying: O Lord, behold I have done even as thou hast commanded me; and I have prepared the vessels for my people, and behold there is no light in them. Behold, O Lord, wilt thou suffer that we shall cross this great water in darkness?

23 And the Lord said unto the brother of Jared: What will ye that I should do that ye may have light in your vessels? For behold, ye cannot have awindows, for they will be dashed in pieces; neither shall ye take fire with you, for ye shall not go by the light of fire.

24 For behold, ye shall be as a awhale in the midst of the sea; for the mountain waves shall dash upon you. Nevertheless, I will bring you up again out of the depths of the sea; for the bwinds have gone forth cout of my mouth, and also the drains and the floods have I sent forth.

25 And behold, I prepare you against these things; for ye cannot cross this great deep save I prepare you against the waves of the sea, and the winds which have gone forth, and the floods which shall come. Therefore what will ye that I should prepare for you that ye may have light when ye are swallowed up in the depths of the sea?

And II Nephi 28

II was a typo. It should read III Nephi 28


CHAPTER 28

Nine of the twelve disciples desire and are promised an inheritance in Christ’s kingdom when they die—The Three Nephites desire and are given power over death so as to remain on the earth until Jesus comes again—They are translated and see things not lawful to utter, and they are now ministering among men. About A.D. 34–35.

1 And it came to pass when Jesus had said these words, he spake unto his disciples, one by one, saying unto them: What is it that ye adesire of me, after that I am gone to the Father?

2 And they all spake, save it were three, saying: We desire that after we have lived unto the age of man, that our ministry, wherein thou hast called us, may have an end, that we may speedily come unto thee in thy kingdom.

3 And he said unto them: Blessed are ye because ye desired this thing of me; therefore, after that ye are aseventy and two years old ye shall come unto me in my bkingdom; and with me ye shall find crest.

4 And when he had spoken unto them, he turned himself unto the three, and said unto them: What will ye that I should do unto you, when I am gone unto the Father?

5 And they sorrowed in their hearts, for they durst not speak unto him the thing which they desired.

6 And he said unto them: Behold, I aknow your thoughts, and ye have desired the thing which bJohn, my beloved, who was with me in my ministry, before that I was lifted up by the Jews, desired of me.

7 Therefore, more blessed are ye, for ye shall anever taste of bdeath; but ye shall live to behold all the doings of the Father unto the children of men, even until all things shall be fulfilled according to the will of the Father, when I shall come in my glory with the cpowers of heaven.

8 And ye shall never endure the pains of death; but when I shall come in my glory ye shall be changed in the twinkling of an eye from amortality to bimmortality; and then shall ye be blessed in the kingdom of my Father.

9 And again, ye shall not have pain while ye shall dwell in the flesh, neither sorrow save it be for the asins of the world; and all this will I do because of the thing which ye have desired of me, for ye have desired that ye might bbring the souls of men unto me, while the world shall stand.

10 And for this cause ye shall have afulness of joy; and ye shall sit down in the kingdom of my Father; yea, your joy shall be full, even as the Father hath given me fulness of joy; and ye shall be even as I am, and I am even as the Father; and the Father and I are bone;

11 And the aHoly Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and the Father giveth the Holy Ghost unto the children of men, because of me.

12 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words, he touched every one of them with his finger save it were the athree who were to tarry, and then he departed.

13 And behold, the heavens were opened, and they were acaught up into heaven, and saw and heard unspeakable things.

14 And it was aforbidden them that they should utter; neither was it given unto them bpower that they could utter the things which they saw and heard;

15 And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a atransfiguration of them, that they were changed from this body of flesh into an immortal state, that they could behold the things of God.

16 But it came to pass that they did again minister upon the face of the earth; nevertheless they did not minister of the things which they had heard and seen, because of the commandment which was given them in heaven.

17 And now, whether they were mortal or immortal, from the day of their transfiguration, I know not;

18 But this much I know, according to the record which hath been given—they did go forth upon the face of the land, and did minister unto all the people, uniting as many to the church as would believe in their preaching; baptizing them, and as many as were baptized did receive the Holy Ghost.

19 And they were cast into prison by them who did not belong to the church. And the aprisons could not hold them, for they were rent in twain.

20 And they were cast down into the earth; but they did smite the earth with the word of God, insomuch that by his apower they were delivered out of the depths of the earth; and therefore they could not dig pits sufficient to hold them.

21 And thrice they were cast into a afurnace and received no harm.

22 And twice were they cast into a aden of wild beasts; and behold they did play with the beasts as a child with a suckling lamb, and received no harm.

23 And it came to pass that thus they did go forth among all the people of Nephi, and did preach the agospel of Christ unto all people upon the face of the land; and they were converted unto the Lord, and were united unto the church of Christ, and thus the people of bthat generation were blessed, according to the word of Jesus.

24 And now I, aMormon, make an end of speaking concerning these things for a time.

25 Behold, I was about to write the anames of those who were never to taste of death, but the Lord forbade; therefore I write them not, for they are hid from the world.

26 But behold, aI have seen them, and they have ministered unto me.

27 And behold they will be aamong the Gentiles, and the Gentiles shall know them not.

28 They will also be among the Jews, and the Jews shall know them not.

29 And it shall come to pass, when the Lord seeth fit in his wisdom that they shall minister unto all the ascattered tribes of Israel, and unto all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, and shall bring out of them unto Jesus many souls, that their desire may be fulfilled, and also because of the convincing power of God which is in them.

30 And they are as the aangels of God, and if they shall pray unto the Father in the name of Jesus they can show themselves unto whatsoever man it seemeth them good.

31 Therefore, great and marvelous works shall be wrought by them, before the agreat and coming day when all people must surely stand before the judgment-seat of Christ;

32 Yea even among the Gentiles shall there be a agreat and marvelous work wrought by them, before that judgment day.

33 And if ye had aall the scriptures which give an account of all the marvelous works of Christ, ye would, according to the words of Christ, know that these things must surely come.

34 And wo be unto him that will anot hearken unto the words of Jesus, and also to them whom he hath chosen and bsent among them; for whoso creceiveth not the words of Jesus and the words of those whom he hath sent receiveth not him; and therefore he will not receive them at the last day;

35 And it would be better for them if they had not been born. For do ye suppose that ye can get rid of the justice of an aoffended God, who hath been btrampled under feet of men, that thereby salvation might come?

36 And now behold, as I spake concerning those whom the Lord hath chosen, yea, even three who were caught up into the heavens, that I knew not whether they were acleansed from bmortality to immortality—

37 But behold, since I wrote, I have inquired of the Lord, and he hath made it manifest unto me that there must needs be a change wrought upon their bodies, or else it needs be that they must taste of death;

38 Therefore, that they might not taste of death there was a achange wrought upon their bodies, that they might not bsuffer pain nor sorrow save it were for the sins of the world.

39 Now this change was not equal to that which shall take place at the last day; but there was a change wrought upon them, insomuch that Satan could have no power over them, that he could not atempt them; and they were bsanctified in the flesh, that they were choly, and that the powers of the earth could not hold them.

40 And in this state they were to remain until the judgment day of Christ; and at that day they were to receive a greater change, and to be received into the kingdom of the Father to go no more out, but to dwell with God eternally in the heavens.