What must you do to inherit eternal life?

LovesLife · Nov 23, 2005

DevotiontoBible said:
Let's see how much eternal life you will get if you burn incense to Baal or are sexually immoral just because you say you have faith in Christ. It doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, idolators and the sexually immoral will end up in hell.

If your burning incense to Baal you obviously don't believe in Christ.

James 2:14 ¶ What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?15 If a brother or sister is without clothing and in need of daily food,16 and one of you says to them, "Go in peace, be warmed and be filled," and yet you do not give them what is necessary for their body, what use is that?17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.18 But someone may well say, "You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works."

True saving faith RESULTS in works.

Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now that I'm saved I am doing good works because God is working in me. This is a VERY important differance because if MY works contribute, I have a right to boast (Hey, look at me, I merited a reward from God!) But if it's all God...
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

And here is the problem, I like to think of myself as a self made man. It extremely humbling to realize I am apsolutly helpless and can't even contribute to my salvation.

9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

If you wish to chalange this do so by showing were I am misaplying these texts, NOT by simply saying your opinion on the subject. Your opinion and my opinion mean nothing.
Joh 17:17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Sentry · Nov 23, 2005

DevotiontoBible said:
What you are doing is highlighting out of context. The text reads that He abolished the Law concerning the regulations which kept Jews and Gentiles segregated. This is the "chel" which seperated the Jews from the court of Gentiles. He did not abolish "You shall have no other gods before me" or " You shall not murder" or "You shall not commit adultery" etc. Paul is saying that the Gentiles have equal access to God through Christ as the Jews and not that the Jews can practice idolatry, murder, adultery and immorality like the Gentiles now.

You are quite wrong.

Do you want proof for that too?

The statement you made that lack of the Law would mean people CAN or may commit sins now totally illustrates for me that you don't know what you are talking about.

Schroeder · Nov 23, 2005

Sentry said:
Seems there is some lack of knowledge around here concerning this one too:

And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

Jesus said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read?"

And he answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself."

And Jesus said to him, "You have answered CORRECTLY; DO THIS, and you will LIVE."

Keep reading the rest of the passage to see HOW to love your neighbor so you might gain eternal life.

read the story in John 4 about the women at the well then John 7 and you will see it is the Baptism of the Spirit by christ that brings eternal life.

Sentry · Nov 23, 2005

Schroeder said:
read the story in John 4 about the women at the well then John 7 and you will see it is the Baptism of the Spirit by christ that brings eternal life.

mmmm hmmmm.

Then I guess Jesus must have been wrong in the Luke account.

DevotiontoBible · Nov 23, 2005

LovesLife said:
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

Now that I'm saved I am doing good works because God is working in me. This is a VERY important differance because if MY works contribute, I have a right to boast (Hey, look at me, I merited a reward from God!) But if it's all God...

I have found your mistake in your exegesis above because you say "it's all God" but scripturally it is not all God. You have conveniently left out v12 that say's "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;". Notice we are to work. This word work is katergazomai assumes human free agency of our own efforts. Contrast this with v13 which say's God's work and it is energeo means God is the energizer. Therefore God is not doing everything, as you so wrongly think, but His part is to give us the determination (willing) and the energy ONLY!!! our part is to do the actual agonizing work.

Sentry · Nov 23, 2005

DevotiontoBible said:
I have found your mistake in your exegesis above because you say "it's all God" but scripturally it is not all God. You have conveniently left out v12 that say's "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;". Notice we are to work. This word work is katergazomai assumes human free agency of our own efforts. Contrast this with v13 which say's God's work and it is energeo means God is the energizer. Therefore God is not doing everything, as you so wrongly think, but His part is to give us the determination (willing) and the energy ONLY!!! our part is to do the actual agonizing work.

It would seem that is what a servant is to do.

Zenmaker · Nov 23, 2005

The term soteriology comes from two Greek terms, namely, so?ter meaning savior or deliverer and logos meaning word, matter, or thing. In Christian systematic theology it is used to refer to the study of the biblical doctrine of salvation. It often includes such topics as the nature and extent of the atonement as well as the entire process of salvation, conceived as an eternal, divine plan designed to rescue lost and erring sinners and bring them back into eternal fellowship with God. Many regard it as the primary theme in Scripture with the glory of God as its goal.

It seems some are here just to find others flaws and correct them. To pick arguements if you will. Is that really the way God wants us to teach? Is an arguementative approach really going to "rescue lost and erring sinners and bring them back into eternal fellowship with God"?

Out of love, I would just like to remind you all that the most prominent fruit of a Christian should be love. Try not to get hung up in our own intelligence. Sometimes the most uneducated of people can have such a stronger faith. I have not read anywhere in the bible that we will inherit eternal life by our vast and detailed knowledge of scripture. Eternal life is in the walk... not just the knowledge.

How, after all, are we ever to be expected to fully understand the plan of a God who's intelligence overshadows our own by light years?

I'm not saying don't teach. Just to teach with love in your heart, not arguements.

Reality check over, carry on. I love you all!

Schroeder · Nov 24, 2005

Sentry said:
mmmm hmmmm.

Then I guess Jesus must have been wrong in the Luke account.

no your interpretation is wrong BECAUSE if he spoke both then BOTH are correct in what he spoke. therefore you interprate to make them both the same. other wise YOU are saying he is not correct arent you. Do you not understand that being in the Spirit is doing such things as he spoke. can you truelly do these to please God outside of the Spirit NO.

Sentry · Nov 24, 2005

Schroeder said:
no your interpretation is wrong BECAUSE if he spoke both then BOTH are correct in what he spoke. therefore you interprate to make them both the same. other wise YOU are saying he is not correct arent you. Do you not understand that being in the Spirit is doing such things as he spoke. can you truelly do these to please God outside of the Spirit NO.

Perhaps my interpretation of Luke's passage is completely correct and your interpretation of John's passage is completely wrong. Didn't consider that one did you?

LovesLife · Nov 25, 2005

To find the answer to this question, on the menue at the top of this page go to

FAQ > BECOMING A CHRISTIAN > hOW TO BECOME A CHIRISTIAN
Or go tho this link http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=gospel#faq_christian

Sentry · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
To find the answer to this question, on the menue at the top of this page go to

FAQ > BECOMING A CHRISTIAN > hOW TO BECOME A CHIRISTIAN
Or go tho this link http://www.christianforums.com/faq.php?faq=gospel#faq_christian

We aren't discussing how to become a Christian.

LovesLife · Nov 25, 2005

DevotiontoBible said:
left out v12 that say's "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;". Notice we are to work. This word work is katergazomai assumes human free agency of our own efforts.

If you look at the 2 greek words that make up katergazomai
kat-ah (acording to) and er-gad-zom-ahee (work) now in greek adj and nouns are in oposite order than in english

The frase then means Work according to your salvation. Work out basicly means live it. or as is often said during a bible study how do we flesh that out.

To interprit it otherwise would put this Pauline epistle in conflict with every other pauline epistle, since no one else more strongly emphisised that salvation is by faith without works than Paul.

Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Another often misunderstood passage is james 2. But I have already addressed that verse in this thread. basicly it says true saving faith will produce works, were as faith that doesn't produce works isn't true saving faith. True saving faith isn't just intelectual agreement.

DevotiontoBible · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
To interprit it otherwise would put this Pauline epistle in conflict with every other pauline epistle, since no one else more strongly emphisised that salvation is by faith without works than Paul.

Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Paul only said that initially our justification was only by faith. However, he and James and Peter and John taught that subsequent justification was by works. Paul in no way condones an immoral life with salvation just because the man has faith.

DevotiontoBible · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
Another often misunderstood passage is james 2. But I have already addressed that verse in this thread. basicly it says true saving faith will produce works, were as faith that doesn't produce works isn't true saving faith. True saving faith isn't just intelectual agreement.

Another mistake of yours is that the text does not say faith or true faith produces works. Here is what it does say: "I will show you my faith by what I do... hisfaith and his actions were working together and his faith was made complete by what he did...a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone..."

You see faith does not do anything in James 2 but it is the individual who produces the works. It is possible to have faith and not have works because of the many passages of Scripture, such as this one, that encourage a believer to perform good works. Why would there be a need for the many passages to encourage good works and warn of apostasy if works and perseverance were automatic results of regeneration?

DevotiontoBible · Nov 25, 2005

Zenmaker said:
The term soteriology comes from two Greek terms, namely, so?ter meaning savior or deliverer and logos meaning word, matter, or thing. In Christian systematic theology it is used to refer to the study of the biblical doctrine of salvation. It often includes such topics as the nature and extent of the atonement as well as the entire process of salvation, conceived as an eternal, divine plan designed to rescue lost and erring sinners and bring them back into eternal fellowship with God. Many regard it as the primary theme in Scripture with the glory of God as its goal.

It seems some are here just to find others flaws and correct them. To pick arguements if you will. Is that really the way God wants us to teach? Is an arguementative approach really going to "rescue lost and erring sinners and bring them back into eternal fellowship with God"?

Out of love, I would just like to remind you all that the most prominent fruit of a Christian should be love. Try not to get hung up in our own intelligence. Sometimes the most uneducated of people can have such a stronger faith. I have not read anywhere in the bible that we will inherit eternal life by our vast and detailed knowledge of scripture. Eternal life is in the walk... not just the knowledge.

How, after all, are we ever to be expected to fully understand the plan of a God who's intelligence overshadows our own by light years?

I'm not saying don't teach. Just to teach with love in your heart, not arguements.

Reality check over, carry on. I love you all!

If you notice the OP to this thread quotes the Gospel where Jesus was answering a question "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus did not correct the man by saying "you cannot do anything to inherit eternal life" did He? why? because people have to, must DO things in order to inherit eternal life. There are posters here who want people to think they can't do anything to inherit eternal life and therefore they won't get it.

Sentry · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
If you look at the 2 greek words that make up katergazomai
kat-ah (acording to) and er-gad-zom-ahee (work) now in greek adj and nouns are in oposite order than in english

The frase then means Work according to your salvation. Work out basicly means live it. or as is often said during a bible study how do we flesh that out.

To interprit it otherwise would put this Pauline epistle in conflict with every other pauline epistle, since no one else more strongly emphisised that salvation is by faith without works than Paul.

Eph2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Ga 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Another often misunderstood passage is james 2. But I have already addressed that verse in this thread. basicly it says true saving faith will produce works, were as faith that doesn't produce works isn't true saving faith. True saving faith isn't just intelectual agreement.

You are totally incorrect.

The context makes it abundantly plain that he is telling Christians to work out a future salvation event.

LovesLife · Nov 25, 2005

Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (NAS)

Note it does not say if a man Has Faith.

Note also it says can that faith save him.

The greek indeed has a definate artical pointing at faith, though the kjv did not translate it, If the passage delt with needing to add works to saqving faith it would read
"If someone has faith and has not works." Also that would make it contradict Eph 2:8,9

17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
note here the text says if faith doesn't have works, the faith is dead. It doesn't say fiath isn't enough, it calls it a dead faith. the problem is with the faith.

Can you explain to me how you interprit Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:6

Sentry · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (NAS)

Note it does not say if a man Has Faith.

Note also it says can that faith save him.

Yes I noted it. That would be "faith alone." James says faith alone cannot save a man.

The greek indeed has a definate artical pointing at faith, though the kjv did not translate it, If the passage delt with needing to add works to saqving faith it would read
"If someone has faith and has not works." Also that would make it contradict Eph 2:8,9

No it wouldn't. But it would contradict your erroneous theology.

17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
note here the text says if faith doesn't have works, the faith is dead. It doesn't say fiath isn't enough, it calls it a dead faith. the problem is with the faith.

Can you explain to me how you interprit Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:6

Sure I interpret Eph 2:8 to mean that salvation is a gift of God and it comes to us apart from works of any kind.

But that is about a conversation event. James is talking about what you must do to be saved when Jesus returns and judges all people.

Sentry · Nov 25, 2005

LovesLife said:
Jas 2:14 What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him? (NAS)

Note it does not say if a man Has Faith.

Note also it says can that faith save him.

Yes I noted it. That would be "faith alone." James says faith alone cannot save a man.

The greek indeed has a definate artical pointing at faith, though the kjv did not translate it, If the passage delt with needing to add works to saqving faith it would read
"If someone has faith and has not works." Also that would make it contradict Eph 2:8,9

No it wouldn't. But it would contradict your erroneous theology.

17 Even so faith, if it has no works, is dead, being by itself.
note here the text says if faith doesn't have works, the faith is dead. It doesn't say fiath isn't enough, it calls it a dead faith. the problem is with the faith.

Yes the problem with this faith is that it is faith alone (faith defined as a faith without works as part of that faith).

Can you explain to me how you interprit Eph 2:8,9 and Rom 4:6

Sure I interpret Eph 2:8 to mean that salvation is a gift of God and it comes to us apart from works of any kind.

But that is about a conversation event. James is talking about what you must do to be saved when Jesus returns and judges all people.

DevotiontoBible · Nov 25, 2005

Sentry said:
But that is about a conversation event. James is talking about what you must do to be saved when Jesus returns and judges all people.

I also see it very plainly taught in scripture that initial justification is by faith alone but that there is a subsequent justification by works. Not an observance of the ceremonial aspects of the Law ie. circumscision, holiday's, washings etc. but holiness that expresses itself through love. This is what we do, God does not do it for us but with us, together (parakletos). If we do our part He does His but if we don't or won't do our part then He does not do His part.

What must you do to inherit eternal life?

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