What kind of message is The Message?

Floatingaxe · Nov 21, 2008

Tamara224 said:
Lord = Master

They're synonyms. They mean the same thing.

I've already told him that twice now, but he ignores it.

Floatingaxe · Nov 21, 2008

Elijah2 said:
Interesting, but "master" in my English context means: "one who has the power of controlling, using, or disposing of something".

The only "Jesus" I know is our "Lord Jesus Christ", and I can assure you that "master jesus" doesn't mean "Lord", or "Lord Jesus", or "Lord Jesus Christ". Interesting!

The interesting thing, why did Eugene change the real meaning of HIS NAME to a new age name?

The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Hosea 2:16
And it shall be, in that day, Says the LORD, That you will call Me My Husband, And no longer call Me My Master,

Malachi 1:6
A son honors his father, And a servant his master. If then I am the Father, Where is My honor? And if I am a Master, Where is My reverence? Says the LORD of hosts To you priests who despise My name. Yet you say, In what way have we despised Your name?

Matthew 17:24
[ Peter and His Master Pay Their Taxes ] When they had come to Capernaum, those who received the temple tax came to Peter and said, Does your Teacher not pay the temple tax?

Luke 8:24
And they came to Him and awoke Him, saying, Master, Master, we are perishing! Then He arose and rebuked the wind and the raging of the water. And they ceased, and there was a calm.

Luke 13:25
When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open for us, and He will answer and say to you, I do not know you, where you are from,

Luke 17:13
And they lifted up their voices and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!

Ephesians 6:9
And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

Colossians 4:1
Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

2 Timothy 2:21
Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.

Radagast · Nov 21, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Ephesians 6:9
And you, masters, do the same things to them, giving up threatening, knowing that your own Master also is in heaven, and there is no partiality with Him.

Colossians 4:1
Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

And in these verses the KJV translates the Greek κύριος (kyrios) as "Master" rather than "Lord" -- which should convince everyone that "Master" is indeed a valid translation.

Alpine · Nov 21, 2008

Elijah, just because they eat rice in the East doesn't make rice evil.

In other words, just because those in the new age use the word master doesn't mean our use of the word master is the same as theirs.

Tamara224 · Nov 21, 2008

Elijah2 said:
Interesting, but "master" in my English context means: "one who has the power of controlling, using, or disposing of something".

And did you look up "Lord" in an English dictionary, too?

Because here's the definition of "lord": "a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler."

The only "Jesus" I know is our "Lord Jesus Christ", and I can assure you that "master jesus" doesn't mean "Lord", or "Lord Jesus", or "Lord Jesus Christ". Interesting!

The interesting thing, why did Eugene change the real meaning of HIS NAME to a new age name?

The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

Did you know, Elijah, that the word "ba'al" means "Lord".

So, if we call God "Lord" are we worshiping false gods?

Or is the meaning we attach to the word more important that the word itself?

Think about it.

Elijah2 · Nov 21, 2008

Hi Tamarra,

And did you look up "Lord" in an English dictionary, too?

Because here's the definition of "lord": "a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler."

And it also says: The Supreme Being, Jehovah, or God and The Saviour, Jesus Christ.

But the word "master" doesn't say that?

Did you know, Elijah, that the word "ba'al" means "Lord".

So, if we call God "Lord" are we worshiping false gods?

Yes, in Hebrew it means lord (without a capital "L"), possessor, husband, and isn't a "proper noun". Its primary sense is "master" or "owner", and was a common names used for "husbands".

However, the word refers to the Semitic deity or deities called "BAAL", as "Baal" isn't the name of "one god", but the name of the presiding deity of any given locality!

The worship of Baal was much the same everywhere in Canaan, and even today their are many false religions who worship "Baal".

In the worship of Baal, incesne and burnt sacrifices were offered including children.

Or is the meaning we attach to the word more important that the word itself?

Interesting that this has come about by my question asking why did Eugene Peterson DELETE the word "Lord Jesus and Lord Jesus Christ" from his book? So answer the question.

And why die Eugene removed over 6,500 entries of "Lord" from his book?

Think about it.

Now you think about it?

Elijah2 · Nov 21, 2008

Alpine said:
Elijah, just because they eat rice in the East doesn't make rice evil.

In other words, just because those in the new age use the word master doesn't mean our use of the word master is the same as theirs.

SIGH!!!!

I willgo back to my orginal question for you Alpine.

Why did Eugene delete over 6,500 words "Lord" from the Bible, and I am referring to the word with a capital "L", not a small "l".

Why did Eugene complete delete "Lord Jesus" and "Lord Jesus Christ" from the Bible and made no mention in his interpretation.

Now this is the question I asked originally, and I emphasised why did he add to the word "Jesus", "master", when it wasn't there?

So why did he delete from and add to? A simple question, and a simple agenda?

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Elijah2 · Nov 21, 2008

Radagast said:
And in these verses the KJV translates the Greek κύριος (kyrios) as "Master" rather than "Lord" -- which should convince everyone that "Master" is indeed a valid translation.

The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

Elijah2 · Nov 21, 2008

Alpine said:
Elijah, just because they eat rice in the East doesn't make rice evil.

In other words, just because those in the new age use the word master doesn't mean our use of the word master is the same as theirs.

The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

Elijah2 · Nov 21, 2008

Tamara224 said:
And did you look up "Lord" in an English dictionary, too?

Because here's the definition of "lord": "a person who has authority, control, or power over others; a master, chief, or ruler."

Did you know, Elijah, that the word "ba'al" means "Lord".

So, if we call God "Lord" are we worshiping false gods?

Or is the meaning we attach to the word more important that the word itself?

Think about it.

The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

Radagast · Nov 21, 2008

Elijah2 said:
The Master Jesus [1] [1] is Jesus as understood by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion.

So not only are you bearing false witness against Eugene Peterson, accusing him of theosophy, you're saying it now about the translators of the KJV who called Jesus "Master"? And you think saying it three times makes it true?

Elijah2 · Nov 22, 2008

Radagast said:
So not only are you bearing false witness against Eugene Peterson, accusing him of theosophy, you're saying it now about the translators of the KJV who called Jesus "Master"? And you think saying it three times makes it true?

Mmmm, you are really showing me who you are, so why not go and check the Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia, because that is were I found that information.

By the way, my dear Aussie friend, from one Aussie to another Aussie, please show were I accused Mr. Perterson of theosophy, and were did you ever get the idea that I said that about translators, and please show me where the KJV says: "master jesus"?

KJV
Matthew 26:49
And forthwith he came to Jesus, and said, Hail, master; and kissed him.

Mark 9:5
And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.

Luke 7:40
And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.

Luke 8:45
And Jesus said, Who touched me? When all denied, Peter and they that were with him said, Master, the multitude throng thee and press thee, and sayest thou, Who touched me?

Luke 9:33
And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said.

Luke 17:13
And they lifted up their voices, and said, Jesus, Master, have mercy on us.

John 1:38
Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and saith unto them, What seek ye? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where dwellest thou?

John 3:10
Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

John 20:16
Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

Here is so more new age guff about master jesus:

Although the Master Jesus (J) is an adept on the Sixth Ray of Devotion and Idealism, and thus resides in the department of the Lord of Civilization, he has been seconded to serve under the Christ, the World Teacher, to promote the welfare of Christianity. He is at present the inspirer and director of the Christian religion throughout the world.

The Master Jesus, as you understand Him, is immersed in the great love and light of the Christ Spirit, that Spirit which overshadowed and enfolded Him during His earthly ministry. After the time of his death He chose to retain the semblance of a body which is known as the form of the Master Jesus. He also chose to be very closely linked to the great source of love, known as the Christ centre or the Christ influence, where all is gentleness, all is tenderness and love, for this is that power which became infused into His being and which is still being infused into those who seek to follow Him in sincerity and in truth.
So I would say it is right that you shall learn to see these two beautiful influences - as separate and yet as blended. As a man and a woman in the earthly life will be husband and wife and yet they are blended by love so that they become as one person, even so is the Master Jesus and the great Christ Spirit. Even as the mother and her babe are separate one from the other and yet they are blended because they are one in love, the infant is enfolded in the love of the mother and the mother feels love because she has the beauty of the infant. Even so is the similarity between the being of the Master Jesus and the enfolding of the great Christ Spirit of love.
The Master Jesus dwells in the region of the Christ. Within this Christ region there is that which I would describe as a palpitant heart of glorious colour, rose-pink radiating in colours of beautiful healing and warmth unto all who may receive the blessing that is there. From time to time the Master retreats into this heart that He may be renewed in the spirit of tenderness, that He may be renewed in the spirit of love, and absorbing it unto Himself may come forth once more in a lovely ministry of love unto the children of the earth, and unto those who pray unto Him in sincere love and devotion for aid and the spiritual power which they need.

Not so, for the influence of the Master Jesus and of the great Christ Spirit is really an ensoulment of this your earthly planet, designed to help in the evolution of all the forms of life. Other planets and other stars have their own guardians, their own special evolutions.

Master Jesus
The Master Jesus is Jesus as conceived of by the metaphysical system of Theosophy as opposed to the historical Jesus of Nazareth or the Jesus Christ of the Christian religion. He is regarded by Theosophists as the Master of the Sixth Ray (see Seven Rays). This article is about Jesus of Nazareth. ... Emblem of the Theosophical Society (Adyar) described at [1] Theosophy, literally wisdom of the divine (in the Greek language), designates several bodies of ideas. ... This article concerns critical reconstructions of the Historical Jesus. ... Wikipedia does not yet have an article with this exact name. ... It has been suggested that this article or section be merged into Christianity. ... The Seven Rays is an occult theory that is used within Theosophy and the occult organizations and religions based on Theosophy, such as the Alice Bailey material, the I Am movement and its many daughter organizations, the Church Universal and Triumphant, and the group founded by Benjamin Creme known as...

According to Alice A. Bailey, the Master Jesus was previously incarnated as Joshua, the Hebrew military leader in the 13th century BC, and Joshua the High Priest in the sixth century BC [1]. Alice A. Bailey (1880â€‘1949), writer and lecturer on neo-theosophy, was born in England in 1880 as Alice LaTrobe Bateman. ... Joshua stops the sun by Gustave DorÃ© Joshua or Yehoshua (Hebrew: ×™Ö°×”×•Ö¹×©Ö»××¢Ö·, Tiberian: , Israeli: YÉ™hoshÃºa) was an Israelite leader who succeeded Moses. ... Joshua the High Priest was the first person chosen to be the High Priest for the reconstruction of the Jewish Temple after the return of the Jews from the Babylonian Captivity (See Zechariah 6:9-14 in the Bible. ...

According to Elizabeth Clare Prophet of the Church Universal and Triumphant, the Master Jesus was also incarnated as Joseph of the Coat of Many Colors. Elizabeth Clare Prophet (born April 8, 1939) is an American who became the leader of the New Age new religious movement The Summit Lighthouse, an organization encompassing the branches of Church Universal and Triumphant, Summit University, Summit University Press, and Montessori International, after her husband, Mark L. Prophet, died on... The Church Universal and Triumphant is a New Age new religious movement and organization founded by Mark L. Prophet and Elizabeth Clare Prophet. ... Joseph interprets the dream of the Pharaoh. ...

Radagast · Nov 22, 2008

Elijah2 said:
please show were I accused Mr. Perterson of theosophy

Post 179.

Elijah2 said:
were did you ever get the idea that I said that about translators

Post 188.

Elijah2 · Nov 22, 2008

Radagast said:
Post 179.

Radagast said:
Post 188.

Mate, I wont go there because you read anything that you wish to read into anything.

Just get THE MESSAGE right mate and that is the book is packed with lies that distorts, misrepresent, adds to, deletes from God's Inspired Word, and desecrates HIS Word. I don't get involved in worldly baiting games with.

Take care.

You be blessed now and enjoy Maryborough.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Radagast · Nov 22, 2008

Elijah2 said:
Just get THE MESSAGE right mate and that is the book is packed with lies that distorts, misrepresent, adds to, deletes from God's Inspired Word, and desecrates HIS Word. I don't get involved in worldly baiting games with.

I don't agree that The Message is packed with lies.

Elijah2 · Nov 24, 2008

Radagast said:
I don't agree that The Message is packed with lies.

Your choice and your decision.

Be blessed in Jesus' Name.

Izdaari Eristikon · Nov 24, 2008

1usul1 said:
I think it depends what you use the message for.
If you treat it as the Word of God then its not a good idea. If it is your sole sorce of nourishment then that again is a bad idea.
However i think it would be excellent for people of lower IQ or younger people.
I think it can be a wonderful asset if used side by side of a good translation eg NIV, NASB, NLT or ESV.

Just so!

I'm not exactly lower IQ (Mensa eligible though not interested) or young (unfortunately), but I find The Message helpful when read alongside a normal translation.

My favorite edition is an NASB/The Message parallel bible. If, as Elijah2 keeps insisting, there are lies and distortions in it, you'd catch them every time reading it that way.

But I'm afraid I must disagree: it isn't a regular translation at all, but a paraphrase, and that's necessarily a commentary of sorts, the bible as retold in his own words, and therefore interpreted by Rev. Eugene H. Peterson.

Well, I happen to like Peterson's interpretations and Elijah2 doesn't. I wouldn't substitute it for a real bible, but just as with other commentaries, it can sometimes help me understand a real bible better.

The root of our disagreement is easy enough to spot: Elijah2 seems to have it in for anything smacking of "emerging church", and accuses Peterson of advocating those ideas. I don't know if that's true, but I am sympathetic to EC thought. But if Peterson were an EC thinker, that'd be fine with me.

Elijah2 · Nov 24, 2008

“THEN CAME certain of the elders of Israel to me and sat before me. And the word of the Lord came to me:

Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their hearts and put the stumbling block of their iniquity and guilt before their faces; should I permit Myself to be inquired of at all by them?

Therefore speak to them and say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Every man of the house of Israel who takes his idols (of self-will, unsubmissiveness, and lawlessness) into his heart and puts the stumbling block of his iniquity (idols) before his face, and yet comes to the prophet (to inquire of him), I the Lord will answer him, answer him according to the multitude of his idols, That I may lay hold of the house of Israel in the thoughts of their own mind and heart, because they are all estranged from Me through their idols.

Therefore say to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: Repent and turn away from your idols, and turn away your faces from all your abominations. For anyone of the house of Israel or of the strangers who sojourn in Israel who separates himself from Me, taking his idols into his heart and putting the stumbling block of his iniquity and guilt before his face, and yet comes to the prophet to inquire for himself of Me, I the Lord will answer him Myself!

And I will set My face against that (false worshiper, prophet, and teacher) and will make him a sign and a byword, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people; and you shall know (understand and realise) that I am the Lord.

(The prophet has not been granted permission to give an answer to the hypocritical inquirer) but if the prophet does give the man the answer he desires (thus allowing himself to be a party to the inquirer’s sin), I the Lord will see to it that the prophet is deceived in his answer, and I will stretch out My hand against him and will destroy him from the midst of My people Israel.

And they both shall bear the punishment of their iniquity: the iniquity of the (presumptuous) prophet shall be the same as the iniquity of the (hypocritical) inquirer, That the house of Israel may go no more astray from Me, neither defile themselves any more with all their transgressions, but that they may be My people, and I may be their God, says the Lord God.” (Ezek. 14:1-11)

When are those, who claim to be Children of our Living God, our Lord Jesus Christ, the One True God, Who is Truth, begins their life-long journey of understanding and knowledge of those “earthly and heavenly things” of the spirit of deception and seduction and doctrines of demons.

How many times HE has looked down upon us, and seeing such a mess in our life that we have created for ourselves, believing that we are still walking aligned with HIM. How many times has HE reached into HIS pocket and said: "Look at what I have here for you”, and hands us a “get out of jail” free card?

Many have not seen that free card, the card of confession, repentance, forgiveness, and love, that very card that gives us the Freedom in our Lord Jesus Christ from our bondages. We never see that spirit of deception and seduction, we never see that our “house is empty, swept, and put in order”, because of our own self-deception and self-seduction. How does a born-again Christian, who is supposedly loves our Lord Jesus Christ and is filled with the Holy Spirit and is determined to walk righteously before God and men wind up in such a dark place of the “unfruitful works of darkness”?

We end up there because we deceive and seduce ourselves through our self-will of determination to succeed in our endeavour at all costs to prove others wrong, and ourself right; and because our unsubmissive heart has not been “transformed or renewed”, and we are unwilling to listen or hear HIM through other believers that HE has put across our paths, and have surrounded us with. As a result, we seduce and deceive ourselves through the spirits of darkness, believing that we are hearing His Voice and that HE condones our walk and, thus, we become determined to see what we believe to be HIM through to the end, and regardless of the cost; regardless of what others are saying to us; and regardless of the pitfalls we continually encounter that we think they are the enemy trying to keep us from doing “HIS good, and acceptable and perfect will” (Rom. 12:2).

What is sobering about the promises of our Lord Jesus Christ in His Inspired Word, is that, HE will fulfil HIS promises in our lives and will continue to speak to us, even though our self-will unsubmissiveness, and lawlessness places idols before our heart, which become a filtering mechanism by which His Word travels through those idols, and by the time His Word reaches our spiritual ears, through our carnal ears, “the TRUTH that we will know” (John 8:32), the TRUTH of His Inspired Word, becomes lost, and distorted, losing their original meaning and intent.

As sad as it is, through our seduction and deception we begin to think He is certifying and sanctioning our way, when just the opposite is the real TRUTH. When He sends others across our path to speak to our “rebelliousness” and “lawlessness”, we write those people off as being intimidating, disrespectful, presumptuous, and insensitive to the Spirit, because, after all, “WE HAVE HEARD FROM OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST”, and His Words speaks to us, even though it is distorted and has been changed. To me that is a very scary place to be in.

Scripture says the way we stay out of error is to hear our brothers: “We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error” (1 John 4:6).

And if we “do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of our mind, that we may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to our Lord Jesus Christ; not with eye service, as men-pleasurers, but as bondservants of our Lord Jesus Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, with goodwill doing service, as to our Lord Jesus Christ and not to men” (Rom. 12:2; & Eph. 6:6-8).

Floatingaxe · Nov 24, 2008

Elijah2 said:
Mate, I wont go there because you read anything that you wish to read into anything.

Just get THE MESSAGE right mate and that is the book is packed with lies that distorts, misrepresent, adds to, deletes from God's Inspired Word, and desecrates HIS Word. I don't get involved in worldly baiting games with.

It doesn't. The distortion is coming from your end. Why waste your time as you do?

What kind of message is The Message?

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