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What is your position on the presence in the food? Is there one single Anglican position?

Do you consider the Eucharist's physical food to directly be or contain Christ's body and blood?

  • I'm Anglican, accept Zwingli's view. Eucharist is only a symbol, not a unique moment of communion

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .

rakovsky

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Hello! I wish to best understand the Anglican position on the Eucharistic food in Anglicanism. I was long under the impression that Anglicans accept that the ritual food is or directly and specifically contains Christ. However, I've heard different answers from Anglicans on their own positions and so I wish to understand well what they believe and if there is an Anglican position on this.

1. The Articles of Religion were major documents in the Church of England's era of its separation from Rome, and include:
In the above I've underlined some key phrases, opposing RC Transubstantiation, and suggesting that the "eating" is "only" in a spiritual manner and that the unfaithful do not actually eat the body.

Wikipedia's background on this was:

A key question I would have is how definitive the articles are of Anglicanism itself?

2. Cranmer's view
Cranmer was a founding and leading Anglican in the English Reformation. As I understand it, he was especially sympathetic to Calvin's or Zwingli's view.

3. The 1979 Episcopalian Catechesis. It states:

"The outward and visible sign in the Eucharist is bread and wine, given and received according to Christ's command. The inward and spiritual grace in the Holy Communion is the Body and Blood of Christ given to his people, and received by faith."

Christians agree that only the faithful benefit from receiving Christ's body and blood, but in the Lutheran view, both the faithful and unfaithful receive that body and blood, as Christ said "Take eat, this is my body" and handed the apostles including Judas.

4. C.S. Lewis' view that Transubstantiation and the idea that the food is in itself only a symbol is unthinkable.
C.S. Lewis is a famous Anglican writer and he wrote:
I understand that C.S. Lewis is not a key "authority" in the same way that the articles might be. However, as I understand it, there was also a major movement in the las 200 years called the Oxford movement that was very sympathetic to the belief in Christ's presence specifically in the ritual food itself.

5. St. Augustine's views.
Since St. Augustine is mentioned in the Articles, I will quote him to better give his ideas. Here is the quote that Article XXIX referred to:
“This is the bread coming down from heaven, so that if anyone eat of it, he may not die. Yes, he who eats what belongs to the virtue of the Sacrament, not to the visible sacrament; he who eats within, not without; he who eats in the heart, not he who presses (the Sacrament) with his teeth” (Tract 26, n. 12,).

Christians have interpreted Augustine's ideas in different ways on this topic, so I will give some more quotes, first one used against Transubstantiation:
For more quotes along this line, see: https://carm.org/early-church-fathers-communion

Here is another: "He [Christ] committed and delivered to His disciples the figure of His Body and Blood” (Augustine, on Psalm 3).

Here are some by Augustine that have been used to support the Catholic/Lutheran view:
  • "What you see is the bread and the chalice; that is what your own eyes report to you. But what your faith obliges you to accept is that THE BREAD IS THE BODY OF CHRIST AND THE CHALICE THE BLOOD OF CHRIST." (Sermons 272)

  • [Jesus] received earth from earth; because flesh is from the earth, and He took flesh from the flesh of Mary. He walked here in the same flesh, and gave us the same flesh to be eaten unto salvation. But no one eats that flesh unless he first adores it… and not only do we not sin by adoring [His flesh], we do sin by not adoring (Explanations of the Psalms 98, 9).
  • "Recognize in this bread what hung on the cross, and in this chalice what flowed from His side... whatever was in many and varied ways announced beforehand in the sacrifices of the Old Testament pertains to this one sacrifice which is revealed in the New Testament." Sermon 3, 2;

  • "How this ['And he was carried in his own hands'] should be understood literally of David, we cannot discover; but we can discover how it is meant of Christ. FOR CHRIST WAS CARRIED IN HIS OWN HANDS, WHEN, REFERRING TO HIS OWN BODY, HE SAID: 'THIS IS MY BODY.' FOR HE CARRIED THAT BODY IN HIS HANDS." (Psalms 33:1:10)
I am not defining for Anglicans what the Anglican view is, but am trying to better understand how they define it themselves, and to see how Anglican laity tend to think on the issue. For example, is there an actual "official" position defining Anglicanism, and what portion of Anglicans would feel which way?
=======================================================

Note in the poll: Please choose the answer that you best identify with. I tried to define each viewpoint on the relationship of the Eucharistic food to Christ's body as best as I could. Some of the definitions didn't fit in the space.

So when I say "Yes, I'm Anglican & accept either the position of Transubstantiation or Luther, but haven't decided", I mean that the respondent hasn't chosen whether the Lutheran or Catholic position is correct, but thinks that at least one of them is.

For Calvin's view, I mean that communion is only of a purely spiritual nature whereby the believer's spirit is united with Jesus' body that is only up in heaven.

For Zwingli's view, I mean that there is not a specific direct presence of Jesus in the bread itself as opposed to anyplace else on earth, and the Eucharistic ritual is not an actual communing of the believer with Jesus' body that is in heaven, or it's not an actual unique form of spiritual communion beyond what happens when "two or more are gathered".
 
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rakovsky

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Given our lengthy dialogue in another thread, I'm rather surprised you left out the option "I'm Anglican, and I don't really care how it happens."
I know. I suppose that goes under "Anglican - Other". I ran out of spaces.
Thanks for your writing.
 
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rakovsky

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Anglican...Other.

Accept the explanation given by the Anglican Articles of Religion.


Cranmer seems usually put in the Calvinist or Zwinglianist (memorialist) camps, or somewhere between them. I'm not sure how those camps would differ from the Articles.

"The “Cranmer was a Zwinglian” meme originated with Gregory Dix, and Dix was wrong. The more recent studies of Cranmer’s Eucharistic doctrine put him more squarely in the camp of Calvin (“true presence”) rather than of Zwingli (“memorialist”)."
https://foolishnesstotheworld.wordp...vin-or-zwingli-in-his-views-of-the-eucharist/


"Nevertheless, there was in Cranmer's thought a greater tendency than in Calvin's for the bread to appear superfluouss. Whereas Calvin tried to link the bread and the reality n intimate but not intrinsic connection, Cranmer tended to divide them, so that the function of the Sacrament lay in its affective, rather than effective character."​
Evangelical Eucharistic Thought in the Church of England, By Christopher J. Cocksworth
 
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Albion

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"Food = symbol w/out specific presence, commune in heaven"
Agree/disagree?
Disagree. I made my choice from your list of alternatives. Are you trying to round up votes for the Calvinist position?
 
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CanadianAnglican

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I reject Transubstantiation as a philosophical explanation of how Christ is present in the Eucharist, and view it as a divine mystery. But Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. I'm not sure if that's Anglican-Other or what.
 
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Albion

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I reject Transubstantiation as a philosophical explanation of how Christ is present in the Eucharist, and view it as a divine mystery. But Christ is truly present in the Eucharist. I'm not sure if that's Anglican-Other or what.
As I read the choices, it looked to me that Anglican-Other was the one that would apply to that particular POV.
 
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Albion

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Perhaps you mean "objective" presence, i.e. literal, carnal, physical presence. In any case, I can't imagine why the official Anglican position was left off the list of choices when you made room for ten alternative views. And the POV taken by "Canadian Anglican," which is quite common among Anglicans, was also omitted.
 
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Padres1969

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Given our lengthy dialogue in another thread, I'm rather surprised you left out the option "I'm Anglican, and I don't really care how it happens."
I answered Anglican-Other for this reason. This is basically my feeling on it. Christ is there as a Real Presence in the Eucharist, but as to how he gets there or the exact form his presence takes, it's a sacred mystery that I'm not inclined to try and explain, nor do I really need an explanation.
 
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Feuerbach

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I am the one person who voted "Calvin's view..." and I have to admit that I did so because upon reading the possible responses and the phrasing of the op, it seemed the closest to expressing that it was as described in the Articles of Religion. If that had been an option, I would have chosen it, but I went with Calvin because I just don't like voting "other"
 
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rakovsky

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Perhaps you mean "objective" presence, i.e. literal, carnal, physical presence. In any case, I can't imagine why the official Anglican position was left off the list of choices when you made room for ten alternative views.
Because I am trying to figure out exactly what that position is, eg. how it's different from the other views.
According to Deegie and Canadian Anglican, the articles are not necessarily "the" official view, so this is what I am trying to find out.
If you feel the Articles contradict the Calvinist view, then how so?
I previously cited authors who think he was either Calvinist or Zwinglian on the question.

And the POV taken by "Canadian Anglican," which is quite common among Anglicans, was also omitted.
He said he "view(s) it as a divine mystery. But Christ is truly present in the Eucharist." How is that different from Calvin's view, or for that matter the Orthodox one? Helfrick said that the PCUSA think it's a divine mystery with Jesus present in the ritual too.[/S]
 
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rakovsky

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Interesting note about the Articles on whether they support the food actually being/containing Jesus' body:

AN INTRODUCTION TO DOGMATIC THEOLOGY - By CLAUDE BEAUFORT MOSS, D.D.LONDON - S.P.C.K 1965 Holy Trinity Church Marylbone Road London NW 1 says:

The author appears to imply that the bread and wine directly and really are themselves the body and blood of Christ or contain them. For this he points to the articles' author's statement that the bread and wine are the body and blood and that the word "given" was shown to mean this. In the book's view, to say that Jesus' body is "given" in the supper refers to the idea that the bread itself, which is "given", is actually Jesus' body, as opposed to Calvin's view that the bread itself is a symbol.

Personally, I find only two views as rationally tenable about the bread: (1) Either the bread is directly and actually Jesus' body or contains it, (RC, Orthodox, Lutheran view) or (2) the bread in itself is only a symbol of the body, not actually Jesus' body.(Zwingli/Calvin view).

The author is saying that with Bishop Guest's comment about "given", Anglicanism's articles teach (1). But for me this makes dilemma. Normally author's intent is crucial, but in this case we also have Cranmer being a major figure taking view #2, and the articles themselves would tend to support #2 in light of the controversies over "spiritual eating(believing as Calvin interpreted John 6)" vs. "physical eating"
The articles say that the body is taken "only" after a heavenly and spiritual manner. This could imply that it's taken not by physical eating. But still, that is not totally clear either. By saying only a heavenly and spiritual manner, it linguistically could mean that believers should eat it with a spiritual attitude, not a fleshly attitude of physical hunger. This is because manner could mean an attitude or approach. For example, do you have a positive, spiritual manner in life or do you have a negative, beastly manner? Did Jesus give people spiritual teachings or carnal ones? In one sense the answer is lofty, spiritual, heavenly only. But in another sense, he did give carnal, fleshly teachings, in the sense that he taught about giving his real flesh for the world and he had an incarnation.

So linguistically I could argue either way whether view 1 or 2 is in the articles, but it would look to me like by calling it "only a spiritual manner" that it supports #2. Yet here we have Bishop Guest's comment that he added "given" to show that the bread itself was Jesus' body. And how does the word "given" about the body show that we are talking about the bread at all, unless "given" is meant "physically given... in the supper".

But to mean "physically given" "only in a spiritual manner" and not in a "physical manner" at all would be a contradiction that would be extremely hard to resolve. The only way to do so would be to mean that it is not a distinction of purely spiritual vs purely physical form of giving that is intended, but a spiritual vs. carnalistic, unworthy distinction about one's approach.

I tend to think that the next article 29 clears up the dilemma by picking #2. Article 29 was introduced later and said that the Wicked do not eat the body. But in the belief of #1, the wicked do eat the body and this is why under #1, 1 Cor 10-11 says that those who take it unworthily are guilty of the body and blood of Jesus, ie. because they directly contaccted it in an unworthy manner.
 
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rakovsky

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Also interesting:
http://anglicaneucharistictheology...._Doctrine_in_the_Church_of_England,_1938.html
Bestowal being an uncertain term reminds me of the question of "given" in Article 28.

Under virtualism, the bread is not actually Jesus' body, but has the same spiritual effect and power, so it's "virtually" or "practically" so. For what it's worth, I could imagine a Receptionist or Calvinist accepting that the bread has the same practical or virtual effect as Jesus' body in that it "affects" and "effects" the process of communion. However, the Report above distinguishes the two concepts on that very basis. As such, I am doubtful that virtualism and receptionism are necessarily in conflict.

 
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rakovsky

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http://www.episcopalchurch.org/library/glossary/receptionism

This article opposes objective and symbolic-only natures of the body in the food.
 
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rakovsky

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Yes, thanks for the clarification. I made a new poll with that as the option. The Church of England 1938 report said that there were three options - real presence in the bread, virtualism/ie that it's effectively and virtually the body, and receptionism. So I gave these options - symbolic, effective vs. objective real presence in the bread.
 
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