What is your "endtime" view?

walt2000 said:

Don't you think I just might just be right? Did you study the variations on the subject?And they can't all be right.
Or do you think every thing has to be done with prosaic .walt2000

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I think the odds are substantially greater you've just flipped your lid rather than having discovered a 2000 year old secret.

My opinion is that you should go see a doctor. If I'm wrong and you're perfectly sane, then you've lost nothing and I look foolish. If I'm right then it was in your best interest to seek help anyway.

heavensblade23 said:

I think the odds are substantially greater you've just flipped your lid rather than having discovered a 2000 year old secret.

My opinion is that you should go see a doctor. If I'm wrong and you're perfectly sane, then you've lost nothing and I look foolish. If I'm right then it was in your best interest to seek help anyway.

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I did see a Dr.. Every thing is in the favour of the 2000 year secret.walt2000

heavensblade23 said:

Gematria IS a system of numerology. What else would it be? I'm not trying to prove you wrong, I'm just pointing out that you seem obsessed with this stuff. Obsession is rarely healthy regardless of the object.

When you need multiple charts to explain your religious views it's time to take a step back.

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I know two here who are obsessed with the pre trib rapture, and they don,t even beleive in it. :o

garry2 said:

I know two here who are obsessed with the pre trib rapture, and they don,t even believe in it. :o

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By the way
It is one chart.Singular ,The others are amplifications of area's of the chart. And there are 77 pages in the book.with charts.explaining the Seven Thunders.Showing that Rev.14/2 in there is a eight Thunder ,Hidden The Great Thunder .A new beginning. I really have to leave you cheerful folks for now, I am enjoying this conversation, but, I will have to let you go ,for now ,maybe you can find a big word for that ,I will hope to hear from you tomorrow.Sorry.walt2000

walt2000 said:

By the way
It is one chart.Singular ,The others are amplifications of area's of the chart. And there are 77 pages in the book.with charts.explaining the Seven Thunders.Showing that Rev.14/2 in there is a eight Thunder ,Hidden The Great Thunder .A new beginning.

I really have to leave you cheerful folks for now,

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I am enjoying this conversation, but, I will have to let you go ,for now ,maybe you can find a big word for that ,I will hope to hear from you tomorrow.Sorry.walt2000

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I wasn't having a dig at you, I was referring to two others here.
Bit of humour for me, and a thorn in the side for them.

obsession would be buying into it right?

zeke37 said:

obsession would be buying into it right?

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Well fancy that you agree with me, and for one of the few ocassions, I beleive you.

LamorakDesGalis said:

End-time view:
My end-time view is the standard dispensational view. That is, a belief in the pretribulational rapture and a (future) premillennial reign of Christ on earth.


LDG

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I see that while I was gone a lot happened here, including many people ignoring the request in the Op of this thread, that is, to only state your views without debating them.

My view is also the standard dispensational view, with a few modifications which I consider clarifications.

I believe that "the Beast" will not rule the entire world, but only Europe (the ancient Roman Empire). (The Greek words that seem to say that he will rule the entire world are generic in nature, not all inclusive, somewhat like our expression "all over the place," meaning in many places, but not meaning in every possible place. There is a Greek word meaning absolutely all, but that is not the word used in these scriptures.)

I believe that "the Beast" will come into power after a general collapse of the existing governments of Europe (the early judgments of Revelation.)

I believe that the great mountain burning with fire that is cast into the sea in Revelation 8 is a symbol of some great nation being destroyed. I think that nation is probably the United States. If so, this would explain why there is nothing else in the entire end times scenario that can be positively identified as the United States. (I also believe that the United States is probably the nation that sends ambassadors over the sea in Isaiah 18. But that prophecy specifically says that God will blow on this, that is, that it will come to nothing. This agrees completely with the idea that the United States will be destroyed at that time.)

I believe that "the Antichrist" is not "the Beast," but the ruler of Judea (which is now called Israel) at that time. ( The beast that looks like a lamb, but speaks like a dragon is a different beast than the one with seven heads and ten horns.)

I believe that Daniel's seventieth week begins when "the Beast" makes a seven year treaty with "the Antichrist." This obviously cannot happen until after they both come into power. So I believe that everything in my scenario up to this point happens after the rapture, but before "the tribulation."

I believe that in the first half of Daniel's seventieth week, the tribulation is only trouble for believers, those who refuse to worship "the Beast" and "the Antichrist." But that "the great tribulation" happens to everyone in the land in the last half of the week.

I believe that the one who attacks Judea at the middle of the week is not "the Beast," but "the Assyrian." (I absolutely cannot understand how every well known teacher on prophecy in the last hundred years has managed to miss the many explicit scriptures about this prophetic character.)

I believe that the prophesied return of all Israel to the land will only happen after Messiah comes, and that the present return is not the one prophesied. The end time scenario in the Bible opens with Judah in the land in unbelief. But their return in the end times is not prophesied in even one scripture. (Although one scripture prophesies their return that happened before the coming of Jesus.) I believe that this understanding reveals the timing of many prophetic events. Prophecies that speak only of Judah refer to Daniel's seventieth week. prophecies that speak of Israel refer to a time after the return that takes place when Messiah comes at the end of that week.

I believe that the attack of Gog in Ezekiel 38-39 will only happen after that prophesied return of all Israel, but that it will be before the millennium.

I believe that Gog's attack in Revelation 20 is a second attack after the millennium.

This, by the way, corresponds generally to views held by most dispensationalists who wrote before the time of Dwight Pentecost. So I am not just some kind of a maverick. I call myself a "classical dispensationalist." Dwight Pentecost started the idea that "the Beast" will rule the entire world. If he will rule the entire world, then Gog has to be destroyed before he rises, and the prophecies about "the Assyrian" must only refer to the ancient Assyrian king Sennacherib, who attacked Hezekiah. But numerous details of Ezekiel 38 and 39 plainly show that it happens between Daniel's seventieth week and the millennium, and numerous details in the prophecies about "the Assyrian" have unquestionably not been fulfilled.

You Are going against the rule, in Rev.22/18-19 Doe's n't that bother you ?The trouble Christ Say's is yours .
And forgive me ,You haven't even come close to interp. Rev. don't get mad at me please ,leave it alone.The trouble in Rev.22/18 is not worth it.He that knows not the law is not guilty of the law, But if he that knows the law and doe's it anyway is guilty of the law.walt2000
Biblewriter You are wrong.walt2000

Look you seem to think that I am trying to convince you that I am Right.
The truth is, I really do not give a pinch of ,--, If you do or if you do not.

What is your "endtime" view? You asked a question ,and I gave you a civil answer, in the form of a chart,A single Chart, and a amplification of that chart,If you can disprove the thing , do so. I realize there are septics out there, Prove me wrong ,try not to insult me, and my intelligence ,with any ignorant remarks , I know this is different, and it proves a lot of people wrong. Which really means everybody that I read. In forty years on the subject.
Let us be civil about this .This was so different ,that I did go to see a Dr. the results are negative. I am not hallucinating, or the like, It is the truth the way it was reveled to me. And it makes sense .May be not to you but to a lot of other people , I tried to prove it wrong, and I could not.And I could not find anybody that could.
Now, It is your chance ,try to find a hole in the chart, Then tell me, I would appreciate it. You can not prove me wrong by banning me . walt2000

walt2000 said:

You Are
Biblewriter You are wrong.walt2000

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Thank you for your correction.

But what am I wrong about? Your comment is not helpful.

All the debates in this thread are contrary to the expressed request of the OP, and that makes them violations of the policies of this forum. If you wish to debate me, do it in another thread.

And It is not you ,so much as the general line of reason ,of the thread .I started a thread open to any one that wants to reason , more like a two way debate.
Seven Thunders of Revelations It is not one way opinions ,bibical only,Revelations only.
walt2000

Biblewriter said:

Thank you for your correction.

But what am I wrong about? Your comment is not helpful.

All the debates in this thread are contrary to the expressed request of the OP, and that makes them violations of the policies of this forum. If you wish to debate me, do it in another thread.

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Now how can I put this?
You are wrong you violate Rev.22/18 but I can't tell you that? And that is not helpful,But we cannot debate this on this thread, but I can debate this with you on another thread ,right .
By the way are you a lawyer or a linguistic?
Now I don't want to go against the rules of this thread but, how on this sweet earth can I tell you are wrong ?If you are wrong,I am not telling you that here, mind you, you are wrong? here ,I am asking.
Can you figure what I just said ?can you explain it to me ,if you don't mind.walt2000

walt2000http://christianforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=116104&d=1213419093

I believe that most people's "end-times" views are far too elaborate than what is Scriptural. I believe that the VAST majority of Old Testament prophecies pertained to Christ's first advent, leaving VERY little left (and yes, even Daniel).

I believe that the Olivet Discourse (Mt 24, Mk 13, and Lk 21) pertained ONLY to the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. I also think that much (I don't have an exact figure, but definitely not ALL; depends on the context) of the New Testament alludes to that as well.

I believe that Christ will return, coinciding with the bodily resurrection of all people from all time, followed by the judgement of all people. After that, all will spend eternity in one of two places (if "place" is the correct word).

I believe that the 1000 year reign started when Christ walked the earth. I believe that Christ explicately taught us that He has already bound Satan, which, according to Rev 20, begins the 1000 year reign.

I don't know if I believe in the figure that many call "the AntiChrist". There is no definitive teaching about "him" in Scripture. John uses the terminology, but talks about a "spirit of antichrist" or "many antichrists". Revelation talks of some "beasts". Daniel (which I believe is pretty much completely fulfilled either before, during, or directly after Christ's first advent) mentions a "little horn", but I believe that that either applied to ancient Greeks or Romans, and not to someone yet-future.

I think that eschatology is very simple. Either we'll die, or Christ will return. We'll be bodily raised from the dead. We'll be judged. We'll spend eternity with Christ or apart from Christ.

I don't really think that there are any signs that we can be looking for, since I believe that what people call the "signs of the times" pertained to different events other than Christ's second advent.

walt2000 said:

Now how can I put this?
You are wrong you violate Rev.22/18 but I can't tell you that? And that is not helpful,But we cannot debate this on this thread, but I can debate this with you on another thread ,right .
By the way are you a lawyer or a linguistic?
Now I don't want to go against the rules of this thread but, how on this sweet earth can I tell you are wrong ?If you are wrong,I am not telling you that here, mind you, you are wrong? here ,I am asking.
Can you figure what I just said ?can you explain it to me ,if you don't mind.walt2000

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I am not an attorney, but I spent years writing legal papers for attorneys. But that is beside the point. If you wish to debate me on any subject, it is very easy to start another thread. Just copy whatever I said that you disagree with, then start a new thread with an appropriate title and paste the allegedly erroneous words into the message window. Then type "square bracket"quote"square bracket" just before the quote starts and "square bracket"/quote"square bracket" just after its end. Then have at it. You have a new thread where you can debate to your heart's content without violating the rules.

In fact, I will do this for you if you simply give me the number of the post or posts in this thread where you think I have made incorrect statements.

As to your correction, I suppose you mean I violated Revelation 22:18. If that is correct, you are accusing me of either adding something to the prophetic word or taking something away from it. If that is what you are accusing me of, it would be much more helpful if you would say precisely what I said that either added to or took away from the prophetic word.

My End Time View centers on the "backbone" of Prophecy, Daniel 9:24-27. I believe that the 70th week of that prophecy remains unfulfilled to this day. Revelation starting at chapter 4 on is clearly this 70th week period extending into the Millenial reign of our Lord from Jerusalem. I believe the Church will be rapture before this period of the 70th week.

Maranatha27 said:

My End Time View centers on the "backbone" of Prophecy, Daniel 9:24-27. I believe that the 70th week of that prophecy remains unfulfilled to this day. Revelation starting at chapter 4 on is clearly this 70th week period extending into the Millenial reign of our Lord from Jerusalem. I believe the Church will be rapture before this period of the 70th week.

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You violate Christs rule 22/18 .The moment you mention another book ,that book of Dan. is proof that OT Prophets are right.

You can't mention a version ,or book ,that confuses the chart Revelations ,that Christ made to show you the Seven Thunders .
And really messes up The Eighth Thunder, that ties it all together
Christ made the rule not me.
Leave the old test to the jew .It is proof to the Christion.It testifies to Revelations.walt2000

walt2000 said:

You violate Christs rule 22/18 .The moment you mention another book ,that book of Dan. is proof that OT Prophets are right.

You can't mention a version ,or book ,that confuses the chart Revelations ,that Christ made to show you the Seven Thunders .
And really messes up The Eighth Thunder, that ties it all together
Christ made the rule not me.
Leave the old test to the jew .It is proof to the Christion.It testifies to Revelations.walt2000

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I don't even understand what you just said. lol. I violated Christ rule 22/18, i didnt know He had His own rule book. Leave the old testement to the Jew? I love the Psalms though. My friend I think we have a completly different view on the Bible, I did come here to debate on this specific thread.

To the OP;
Pretertist, but not full Pretertist in the idea that everything ended in 70 AD.
I believe all Daniel was fulfilled from the time of the visions through the later part of the first century.
The Roman armies of the prince to come (Titus) desolated Jerusalem closes the time period of Daniel visions and prophecies. The kingdom given to the saints of all peoples, nations languages in Dan 7:13,14;27 is the kingdom of the presence and power of God taken from the adulterous, idolatrous and unbelieving Jews and given to the saints of the new covenant. This transferal and intercovenental period seems to be finalized by the voice from the temple saying "lets get out of here" only yrs before the temples destruction.
The Olivet discourse was fulfilled to those who Jesus spoke to on the Mount and in the temple when he taught them about the signs of the coming tribulation and the casting down of the stones of the temple and the judgement upon the old covenant and its unbelieving people.
I believe Revelation was written pre 68 AD and cooresponds with the plagues and judgment written into the Old covenant and is applied to those who went after other gods (Ceasar and Romanism) of Deut 28-32 and the 'day of vengeance" of our God. Jesus said that he had not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill the law. Part of the law was the judgments and closure of the covenant. Christ came to fulfill the judgements upon those who followed other Gods. Deut 28-32.

Parts of some of the prophecies that refer to Israel after the ending of the Old covenant refer to Spiritual Israel... I.E. the true church of the spiritual Seed of Abraham. Is 59,61,66 are some of those such prophecies in which "israel" is shown in a state of Peace or in rebuilding the ruins. Jeremiah 33:27-34 is delivered in the scope of the 'house' and religious atmosphere of the nations of Israel and judah, but fulfilled in the spiritual "seed" of Israel... i.e. believers in Christ.

Seeing how Isaiah 66 refers to the birth of the international 'nation/church' of Christianity, I am presently considering weather the New Heavens and New Earth of Isaiah 66 were established and granted to Spiritual Israel as the church of Christ was formed under New Heavens in a New Earth that was outside of the "old heavens" (i.e. the old laws of heaven and old spiritual climate and atmosphere of the law) and the old earth of the promised land. It is therein in the new heavens (new spiritual climate) and new earth where dwelleth righteousness apart from the Law, but found in and through faith. (Rom Chs. 1-9,10) For there is non righteous by the law.

So i'd be Pretertist, but with the sons/daughters of Jesus Church continuing to fulfill the kingdom of God and to fulfill some prophecies pertaining to "israel" or the "saints" or other similar names for believers in God and Christ.