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IronPillar said:God made man in HIS own image, but man turned to man-made gods to worship them and made a fool of himself.This grieved God's heart and provoked Him. What is wrong with idol worship? First of all ,God Almighty , who made the universe and then man in His image, commanded, "You shall have no other gods before me. "You shall make for yourself no molten gods. "The law with the Ten Commandments was given to the Jews first And When God turned to the gentiles after that the word God gave through the apostles to the nations was the same concerning idol worship ..In fact all nations were idol worshipers, including Rome, now the seat of Pope. The following is the main argument in the Holy Bible against idolatry. St. Paul who was the first missionary to Athens preached this message in that city. "The God who made the world and everything in itHe is Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in shrines made by hands. Neither is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives everyone life and breath and all things. From one man He has made every nation of men to live all over the earth and has determined their appointed times and the boundaries of where they live, so that they might seek God, and perhaps they might reach out and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us. For in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, For we are also His offspring. Being Gods offspring, then, we shouldnt think that the divine nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image fashioned by human art and imagination. Therefore, having overlooked the times of ignorance, God now commands all people everywhere to repent, because He has set a day on which He is going to judge the world in righteousness by the Man He has appointed" Who is Lord Jesus Christ. . From The Book of the Acts of the Apostles;17:24-31] [ Remember the fact that Greece and Athens were centers of idol worship and haven for gods of all kind.] The Holy Bible says;"The gods that have not made the heavens and the earth shall perish from the earth and from under the heavens."Jeremiah;10:11.In the past nations of the earth in their ignorance worshiped gods that cannot see or hear or speak. Egypt,Assyria,Babylon, Greece, Rome all these countries were once filled with idol worship.The names of those native gods are mentioned in the ancient writings as well as in the Bible. But in course of time ,these nations who earnestly worshiped and served these gods became conscious of the foolishness of serving them and threw them away as dirt.All the gods of the Egyptians and the Babylonians and the Romans and the Greeks and many other nations came to nothing No one even remembers their names any more.But the God in the heaven is the True God ,He is the Living God and He is the Eternal King.His kingdom rules over all things
MAXX said:For me Statue or Image of Krishna is a beautiful symbol of Krishna. When i see statue of Krishna, my innocent child-like love towards infinite divine Krishna multiply many times. I never thought that Statue as Krishna himself or his manifestation or mediator between me and infinite Krishna.
kris_kwel said:To arunma (not just for this particular thread),
Please stop using we in your extremist and replies full of hate. I don't agree with most of your posts. Just because you have problems with Hinduism due to personal or impersonal reasons, that doesn't mean you have right to represent all Christians on matters which many other denominations have different point of view. You can't exclude point of view of Catholics and claim to represent Christianity.
arunma said:Actually Satay, I reported your posts and asked them to be deleted. And every time you blaspheme the Lord God, I'll continue reporting you.
Oh, in case anyone is interested, there's a certain word in Greek which is surprisingly similar to a descriptor that seems to be used these days to describe Satay.
mōros:Strangely enough, the word is first found in Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.
dull or stupid (as if shut up), that is, heedless, (morally) blockhead, (apparently) absurd: - fool (-ish, X -ishness).
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, 'You fool!' will be liable to the hell of fire. (St. Matthew 5:22)So to Kataphraktos, my brother in Christ, I would say this. Satay is a Gentile and a worshiper of false idols who have no power to save him. You, however, are a child of the Most High God. Yet how can we live as pampered children of the King when the King himself is humbled, and stripped for battle? "Do not throw your pearls before pigs." (St. Matthew 7:6). If you mock a Gentile, Hindu idolater, not only are you giving him an opportunity to blaspheme our Lord and invite condemnation on himself, but you are throwing away your own salvation. If he chooses, let him continue worshiping idols in futility, and heap condemnation on himself. But you obey Jesus Christ by loving him, even though Hindus hate God and his church.
Reply by IronPillarRam said:What bible says regarding idols mean nothing to us. They are all valid to people who beleive that it is the infalliable word of God for which there is no proof and for which are enough counter proofs.
When Christians cannot challenge the might of Hinduism and its philsopical depth they try to attacks some its weaker links - idol worship and the caste system. But history has proved that it is simply not possible to attack it this way.
I challenge any christian to show an evidence from the Bhagvad Gita or the vedas or the vedanta sutras where idol worship is recommended or made mandatory. I also challenege them to show any passages supporting the hereditary caste system. There is none - that is why Christianity has failed in India, because these are all lies and cannot be proved.
Temple worship, Idol worship etc find no place even in Ramayana - show me one verse in proof. Not even in Mahabartha.
Bhagavata is the earliest Hindus scripture where temple worship and idol worship etc figure along with Panchartara Agamas of the Bhagavatha religion. These are later developments in Hinduism used to protect the religion from goin astray, and making it more organised. Temple worship never existed in olden times because no description is ever found in Ramayana.
Hinduism is essentially about higher spiritual disciplines such as Yoga and advanced meditative practices which are virtually non existant elsewhere, and that is what that has held the religion from getting washed away in the past. Organised movements like the Bhakti movement, temple worship and later rituals are the ways Hinduism evolved to counter non vedic religions like Buddhism, Jainism, and religions like Islam and Christianity. It has in it enough flexibility to adapt an any way in future and free from dogma - challenge it here in India and it will digest you.
False accusations like this will never be taken seriously by any Hindu if that is tha aim of the OP. Show proof about idolatory from ancient Hindu scripture. Only the Agama literature mentions about them - which are more about an organised systematic religeous movement that protected the religion from the maleachas and intruders like Huns, and has continued to this day.
Some day, the Hindus will go back to their golden days of Yoga and higher spiritual disciplines...and stop beleiving in superstitions and fairy tales.
IronPillar said:Reply by IronPillar
There is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to people by which we must be saved."Acts;4:12
arunma said:The way I see it, Satay will either repent one day, destroy his Hindu idols, and be saved by Christ, or he will have an eternity in hell to atone for the sin of falling before the Vedic pantheon of gods. .
IronPillar said:ANSWER-: Then what is this you quoted ? For symbolically the absence of the Goddess from the officially sanctioned holy scriptures was the absence of a divine power to protect women and avenge the wrongs inflicted upon them by men. The Chalice and the Blade
I also find most Christians have difficulties in having Bible passages quoted at them!!!!Theowne said:IronPillar, do you realize how pointless it is to present Bible quotes as some sort of evidence to people who do not believe in it? Do you assume you're actually getting anywhere?
"I have a note from my mom."
"I don't believe your mom wrote it. What proof do you have?"
"The note from my mom."
Get it?
Theowne said:IronPillar, do you realize how pointless it is to present Bible quotes as some sort of evidence to people who do not believe in it? Do you assume you're actually getting anywhere?
"I have a note from my mom."
"I don't believe your mom wrote it. What proof do you have?"
"The note from my mom."
Get it?
I hate to burst your bubble, but I know a number of Pagans who commune with Gods from each of these pantheons. And then some.IronPillar said:...All the gods of the Egyptians and the Babylonians and the Romans and the Greeks and many other nations came to nothing No one even remembers their names any more...
coolbodhi said:"I have a note from my mom."
"I don't believe your mom wrote it. What proof do you have?"
"The note from my mom."
Theowne Post 91
IronPillar said:Friend, I see others quote from religious books.I thought I could do the same thing.
Especially since the Bible is the written word of God.How much more I should quote the words that came out of the mouth of the Eternal God.Those words are living and powerfull.
IronPillar said:Friend, I see others quote from religious books.I thought I could do the same thing.Especially since the Bible is the written word of God.How much more I should quote the words that came out of the mouth of the Eternal God.Those words are living and powerfull.
"For just as rain and snow fall from heaven,
and do not return there
without saturating the earth,
and making it germinate and sprout,
and providing seed to sow
and food to eat, so My word that comes from My mouth
will not return to Me empty,
but it will accomplish what I please,
and will prosper in what I send it [to do]." Isaiah;55:10,11
Neither will budge, no one will be converted and each will cling to his god till death.
Can't the topics just be discussed without the bible thumping tactics?
IronPillar said:"The magicians of Egypt, did the same by their secret arts. For every man cast down his rod, and they became serpents. But Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods."Exodus;6:11,12
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