What IS Treason ?

cfyahoo08 · Jan 12, 2012

trea·son

 

 /ˈtri zən/

Show Spelled[tree-zuh n]

Show IPA
noun 1.The offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. A violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.The betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

How often do we hear of politicians and/or media figures that would/could be tried for treason but it goes unnoticed or not mentioned ?

stamperben · Jan 12, 2012

Got any examples?

cfyahoo08 · Jan 12, 2012

stamperben said:
Got any examples?

Treason in the US Senate - YouTube

and many,many,many others.... especially how the sacred trust of spending and/or NOT spending our tax dollars.

stamperben · Jan 12, 2012

Do you have anything other than a video from a Paulite?

cfyahoo08 · Jan 12, 2012

stamperben said:
Do you have anything other than a video from a Paulite?

Sure, but I'm not gonna do all the footwork to go find it all. Its out there.

stamperben · Jan 12, 2012

So... If ya gotta do footwork then you DON'T have anything.

Thought not.

Rion · Jan 12, 2012

I would consider Fast & Furious to be treason by the ATF and Justice department.

Belk · Jan 12, 2012

I see nothing to be gained in lowering the bar of treason to such low levels. The witch hunts of McCarthyism should not be carried out again with the idea that if you don't follow a particular ideology you are an enemy of the state.

cfyahoo08 · Jan 12, 2012

Belk said:
I see nothing to be gained in lowering the bar of treason to such low levels. The witch hunts of McCarthyism should not be carried out again with the idea that if you don't follow a particular ideology you are an enemy of the state.

If you do something against the fundamentals of the common good and use taxpayer dollars with wreckless abondon then you should have to answer for that. Taxpayer money should be treated with a sacred trust it is NOT a piggybank for those in power to raid and use for whatever pet project they seem fit to embark on. Government should enhance our freedoms NOT take them away.

Touma · Jan 12, 2012

cfyahoo08 said:
trea·son

   /ˈtri zən/ Show Spelled[tree-zuh n] Show IPA
noun 1.The offense of acting to overthrow one's government or to harm or kill its sovereign.
2. A violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or to one's state.
3.The betrayal of a trust or confidence; breach of faith; treachery.

How often do we hear of politicians and/or media figures that would/could be tried for treason but it goes unnoticed or not mentioned ?

US Constitution, Article III Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

And 18 U.S.C. § 2381: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

I'll stick with those definitions.

Touma · Jan 12, 2012

cfyahoo08 said:
Government should enhance our freedoms NOT take them away.

Goverment has only a role in protecting your freedoms. Not enhancing or taking away. Just protecting

And how does spending tax money on roads, bridges, schools, community centers, the military, social security, etc take away from your freedom? Which specific constitutional right does the government trounce when they spend tax money?

Belk · Jan 12, 2012

cfyahoo08 said:
If you do something against the fundamentals of the common good and use taxpayer dollars with wreckless abondon then you should have to answer for that. Taxpayer money should be treated with a sacred trust it is NOT a piggybank for those in power to raid and use for whatever pet project they seem fit to embark on. Government should enhance our freedoms NOT take them away.

Then make them answer for it by using the methods in place of voting them out. But electing people and then trying to prosecute them because you do not like the way they run things is immoral and unethical. Especially by using laws that carry the death penalty to try to cow people into following the path you have decided is best. Tyranny of the masses is still tyranny.

Rion · Jan 12, 2012

Touma said:
US Constitution, Article III Section 3

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

And 18 U.S.C. § 2381: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the
United States.

I'll stick with those definitions.

Not sure if you were responding to me or not, but knowingly providing weapons to foreign bationals who you know will likely use those weapons against American citizens would fall under giving aid to the enemy.

cfyahoo08 · Jan 12, 2012

Touma said:
Goverment has only a role in protecting your freedoms. Not enhancing or taking away. Just protecting

And how does spending tax money on roads, bridges, schools, community centers, the military, social security, etc take away from your freedom? Which specific constitutional right does the government trounce when they spend tax money?

Well if government wants to keep us all safe then we should all be locked up and the key thrown away so nothing harms us and we are all SAFE then right ?

Certain things enhance our freedoms and others take freedom away, There is a balance that should be the goal our FREEDOMS should be enhanced by government we should NOT be a prisoner to government.

tulc · Jan 12, 2012

Rion said:
Not sure if you were responding to me or not, but knowingly providing weapons to foreign bationals who you know will likely use those weapons against American citizens would fall under giving aid to the enemy.

I also think Ron Reagan should be put on trial for treason but I don't see it happening any time soon.
tulc(likes when he can agree with others)

Touma · Jan 12, 2012

cfyahoo08 said:
Well if government wants to keep us all safe then we should all be locked up and the key thrown away so nothing harms us and we are all SAFE then right ?

Certain things enhance our freedoms and others take freedom away, There is a balance that should be the goal our FREEDOMS should be enhanced by government we should NOT be a prisoner to government.

You didn't asnwer the question.

Touma · Jan 12, 2012

Rion said:
Not sure if you were responding to me or not, but knowingly providing weapons to foreign bationals who you know will likely use those weapons against American citizens would fall under giving aid to the enemy.

I could be persuaded to agree with you. However, legally they have the argument that intent was not to arm the drug cartels (whom I suspect you are talking about) to fight against the United States gov't, but to track how they get weapons from the US and then find a way to stop that flow, in an attempt to prevent those cartels from doing harm to our country or fellow citizens. Of course, the idea sounds nice of paper, but they performed it in such an idiotic way. That being said, I am not sure that being an idiot is treason. Perhaps if they had clear intent on aiding the enemy against the United States gov't...then Treason could be charged. Or, because the requirements for treason specify war has be in place between the United States and the group being aided or armed, it is unlikely treason will be charged against these people. Congress has not, to the best of my knowledge, formally declared war on Mexican Drug Cartels or the country of Mexico.

However, the lack of punishment for those gunrunning programs might change due to a proposed bill in the House, from Charlie Dent of PA. He proposes adding language that aiding groups who engage in open hostilities (notice the lack of formal declaration of war) can 1) be stripped of citizenship, which leads to 2) indefinite military detention under NDAA.

Again, it would be a matter of proving that the intent was to aid an enemy of the united states, and not simply a new method of trying to protect it in a roundabout way.

Acebopata · Jan 12, 2012

I believe Treason is when the government does something they are not supposed to without care about the consequences. The reason I beleive this is a simple equations, one that say's

"Once you ignore the laws of what the government can not do, then that same government shall overt undue injustices over the populace, thus leading into treason by any definition."

The interpretation of the equation is simple. If the government constantly ignores it's boundaries, then the Government will commit undue iniquities upon the populace.

Ishraqiyun · Jan 12, 2012

I never gave my allegiance to a sovereign, or to a state, or to a country to begin with. Some folks think you "owe" allegiance to a state because you happened to be born within what it considers to be it's jurisdiction. I disagree. It seems like a statist concept to me.

Incariol · Jan 12, 2012

Rion said:
Not sure if you were responding to me or not, but knowingly providing weapons to foreign bationals who you know will likely use those weapons against American citizens would fall under giving aid to the enemy.

Foreigners aren't enemies by default. Nice try.

What IS Treason ?

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