What is this thing called socialism?

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership and cooperative management of the means of production, and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

Elgibbor · Aug 19, 2012

First!

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

Elgibbor said:
First!

Technically, you are second

Elgibbor · Aug 19, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Technically, you are second

But first to reply.

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

Elgibbor said:
But first to reply.

I grant you that

Azureknight 773 · Aug 19, 2012

MikeK · Aug 19, 2012

That's all well and good, MC, but here on OBOB the terms "Marxism", "socialism", "communism" and "progressivism" all mean "a polititian wants to raise taxes (or eliminate loopholes) on the rich and/or make the government responsible for providing a service it didn't provide before".

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

MikeK said:
That's all well and good, MC, but here on OBOB the terms "Marxism", "socialism", "communism" and "progressivism" all mean "a polititian wants to raise taxes (or eliminate loopholes) on the rich and/or make the government responsible for providing a service it didn't provide before".

Stinks, doesn't it!

catholicbybirth · Aug 19, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Socialism is an economic system characterised by social ownership and cooperative management of the means of production, and a political philosophy advocating such a system. "Social ownership" may refer to cooperative enterprises, common ownership, direct public ownership or autonomous state enterprises. There are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them. They differ in the type of social ownership they advocate, the degree to which they rely on markets versus planning, how management is to be organised within economic enterprises, and the role of the state in constructing socialism.

Oh, is this what you are wanting to U.S. to adopt? Well, it has been tried, but each time it has become corrupt, rather like our system has become corrupt. But when the socialists become corrupt the poor suffer even more atrociously than under our system.

I'm getting old. My words are failing. In the U.S. we have a system in which goods are bought and sold and the demand, or lack of it, for goods is what controls the price. I can not for the life of me remember the word. Can someone help me here. I do believe it begins with a "c".

Janice

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

catholicbybirth said:
Oh, is this what you are wanting to U.S. to adopt? Well, it has been tried, but each time it has become corrupt, rather like our system has become corrupt. But when the socialists become corrupt the poor suffer even more atrociously than under our system.

I'm getting old. My words are failing. In the U.S. we have a system in which goods are bought and sold and the demand, or lack of it, for goods is what controls the price. I can not for the life of me remember the word. Can someone help me here. I do believe it begins with a "c".

Janice

Oh no. Wouldn't dream of it. But I did think a proper definition might be helpful to OBOB chatters. Some seem to have serious misconceptions about what socialism is.

Needing_Grace · Aug 19, 2012

catholicbybirth said:
Oh, is this what you are wanting to U.S. to adopt? Well, it has been tried, but each time it has become corrupt, rather like our system has become corrupt. But when the socialists become corrupt the poor suffer even more atrociously than under our system.

I'm getting old. My words are failing. In the U.S. we have a system in which goods are bought and sold and the demand, or lack of it, for goods is what controls the price. I can not for the life of me remember the word. Can someone help me here. I do believe it begins with a "c".

Janice

Supply and demand is a component of a free-market economy, of which capitalism is one manifestation. Problems pop up when demand is reduced because the money supply is being hoarded and parlayed into schemes to hoard more of the money supply. This is where we find ourselves right now.

People lose jobs because money is disappearing from the economy because of the post housing bubble credit crunch. Banksters plead poverty, get billions of taxpayer $$$, hoard it, parlay it in schemes to create more debt sucking more money from the economy. Demand goes down, jobs are cut, demand goes down, jobs are cut...and so on.

What is the Republican solution? Reward the hoarders by cutting their taxes even more in the hopes that, if the planets line up right, the weather is just cool enough and the birds are whistling just the right tune, those hoarding the wealth of the nation will decide to create a job.

I prefer a solution that uses some of that wealth to build things that will benefit everyone while providing good jobs for Americans.

Sent from my iPhone using CF

Stars of the Pharaohs · Aug 19, 2012

Christian socialism is a form of religious socialism based on the teachings of Jesus. Many Christian socialists believe capitalism to be idolatrous and rooted in greed, which some Christians denominations consider a mortal sin. Christian socialists identify the cause of inequality to be associated with the greed that they associate with capitalism.

Christian socialism became a major movement in the United Kingdom beginning in the 1960s through the Christian Socialist Movement.

The term also pertains to such earlier figures as the nineteenth century writers Frederick Denison Maurice (The Kingdom of Christ, 1838), Charles Kingsley (The Water-Babies, 1863), Thomas Hughes (Tom Brown's Schooldays, 1857), Frederick James Furnivall (co-creator of the Oxford English Dictionary), Adin Ballou (Practical Christian Socialism, 1854), and Francis Bellamy (a Baptist minister and the author of the United States' Pledge of Allegiance).

Christian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

Godly living does call for justice to the poor as well as to everybody else. In the old testament especially, and in the writings of the prophets God's grievances against Israel and Judah were almost always about the ruling classes and the wealthy (often the same people) mistreating widows, orphans, the poor, and the weak. It made God furious with the nation; so much so that he threatened them with plagues and destruction and deportation because they failed to care for the poor, to obey the Law and to be faithful to what God called them to. They, the Israelites, had once been slaves themselves, in a foreign land, cut off from any chance to earn a decent living and denied justice. Therefore God required of the Israelites that they treat their fellow Israelites and foreigners with justice and equity.

The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done, let mercy be your first concern, and humbly obey your God." (Micah 6:8)

Stars of the Pharaohs · Aug 19, 2012

.

JimR-OCDS · Aug 19, 2012

Socialism only works within a group of people who share the same ideology.

It fails in larger groups or nations, because there will always be those who do not share the same ideology.

I just finished reading a book titled, "The Good Life," by Helen and Scott Nearing.

It's the story of a couple back in 1930, who were fired from their jobs as teachers in NYC U. for their socialist views. During this time, the American Communist had begun to organize especially in college campuses. This was during the depression of course, where unbridled capitalism had put the world into the greatest economic collapse in history.

Anyway, the Nearing's decided to move to Vermont and buy a run down farm, which they would rebuild and live a lifestyle which would remove them from the stock market economy. They also had the idea to form a socilistic structure among the fellow farmers in their area. Try as hard as they did, they failed because the individualistic mindset of Americans, especially Vermonters was too great. They came to realize that socialism can only work in small communities where everyone shares the same ideology and works together to make it work.

It's why it works in Monasteries and Convents, and in some communions, but generally, if fails on larger scales.

Jim

MoreCoffee · Aug 19, 2012

Socialism is not the only way to improve the lives of the poor and weak. There are many ways to improve the lot of the people, including the poor, which emphasise justice and mercy. That is, after all, what God calls us to do - The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done, let mercy be your first concern, and humbly obey your God." (Micah 6:8)

There are nations in the world that have implemented various forms of economic justice that better serve their people. Germany, a nation of over eighty million people, has done this, so too have Norway, Sweden, and Finland, each a nation of more than five million people. Canada with thirty four million has also done so, Australia with twenty two million also has done so. Some nations have done it better than others, some have not even tried. But that is no reason for us not to try.

Stars of the Pharaohs · Aug 19, 2012

Erose · Aug 19, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Oh no. Wouldn't dream of it. But I did think a proper definition might be helpful to OBOB chatters. Some seem to have serious misconceptions about what socialism is.

The question is does the poster think the action being discussed will lead to socialism or is the poster describing the action as socialism. Anyway Marxism is pure socialism and then you have many shades of gray as one moves from Marxism to Capitalism. The question then becomes how gray is your country?

Erose · Aug 19, 2012

MoreCoffee said:
Socialism is not the only way to improve the lives of the poor and weak.

socialism does not improve the lives of the poor, just make more of them.

MoreCoffee said:
There are many ways to improve the lot of the people, including the poor, which emphasise justice and mercy. That is, after all, what God calls us to do - The LORD God has told us what is right and what he demands: "See that justice is done, let mercy be your first concern, and humbly obey your God." (Micah 6:8)

Yes there is the best way is Charity, Christian Charity. Whatever system you have it must have a ethical standard, if not people will suffer no matter what system you use.

MoreCoffee said:
There are nations in the world that have implemented various forms of economic justice that better serve their people. Germany, a nation of over eighty million people, has done this, so too have Norway, Sweden, and Finland, each a nation of more than five million people. Canada with thirty four million has also done so, Australia with twenty two million also has done so. Some nations have done it better than others, some have not even tried. But that is no reason for us not to try.

Try where? Is France that bad off?

Erose · Aug 19, 2012

Stars of the Pharaohs said:
Christian socialism is a form of religious socialism based on the teachings of Jesus. Many Christian socialists believe capitalism to be idolatrous and rooted in greed, which some Christians denominations consider a mortal sin. Christian socialists identify the cause of inequality to be associated with the greed that they associate with capitalism.

Christian socialism became a major movement in the United Kingdom beginning in the 1960s through the Christian Socialist Movement.

The term also pertains to such earlier figures as the nineteenth century writers Frederick Denison Maurice (The Kingdom of Christ, 1838), Charles Kingsley (The Water-Babies, 1863), Thomas Hughes (Tom Brown's Schooldays, 1857), Frederick James Furnivall (co-creator of the Oxford English Dictionary), Adin Ballou (Practical Christian Socialism, 1854), and Francis Bellamy (a Baptist minister and the author of the United States' Pledge of Allegiance).

Christian socialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You do understand that the community of Christians under the Apostles in Jerusalem where a small community and not a state or country. As another poster has already said sharing in common only works in communities with share goals such as a monastery or convent. A pluralistic society? No don't think so.

What is this thing called socialism?

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