what is semi-arianism?

BobRyan · Jan 9, 2017

Daniel Marsh said:
When it comes to Second Coming Prophecy I am a pan tribis --- it will all pan out. But, maybe I have an answer.

I always though the sealing of book and mystery in OT was the New Covenant based on the book of Hebrews somewhere.

Matthew 13:35
So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophet: “I will open my mouth in parables, I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world.”

Luke 10:21
At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, “I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

Romans 16:25
Now to him who is able to establish you in accordance with my gospel, the message I proclaim about Jesus Christ, in keeping with the revelation of the mystery hidden for long ages past,

1 Corinthians 2:7
No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

Ephesians 3:9
and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things.

Colossians 1:26
the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the Lord’s people

Like I said, I am not an expert on Second Coming Prophecy --- I simply have been keeping my eyes open for his return.

I will need to go back and restudy,
Daniel 12:9
He replied, “Go your way, Daniel, because the words are rolled up and sealed until the time of the end.

There is an interesting passage in the Didache.

Chapter 16. Watchfulness; the Coming of the Lord. Watch for your life's sake. Let not your lamps be quenched, nor your loins unloosed; but be ready, for you know not the hour in which our Lord will come. But come together often, seeking the things which are befitting to your souls: for the whole time of your faith will not profit you, if you are not made perfect in the last time. For in the last days false prophets and corrupters shall be multiplied, and the sheep shall be turned into wolves, and love shall be turned into hate; for when lawlessness increases, they shall hate and persecute and betray one another, and then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, and he shall do iniquitous things which have never yet come to pass since the beginning. Then shall the creation of men come into the fire of trial, and many shall be made to stumble and shall perish; but those who endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth: first, the sign of an outspreading in heaven, then the sign of the sound of the trumpet. And third, the resurrection of the dead -- yet not of all, but as it is said: "The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him." Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven.

Christ says in Matt 7 - that at the 2nd coming it is the "many" in the Christian church that fail - and the FEW that make it.
He says it is based on one simple thing - hearing His Words and doing them. Rejecting scripture is not the path to the Words of Christ.

notice what Christ said in Mark 7:6-13 about the idea of rejecting scripture - the Word of God.

Matthew 24:24 says that the deception at the end of time so powerful "if possible it would deceive the very elect"

Revelation 13 says "ALL the World" is taken in by the deception.
3 I saw one of his heads as if it had been slain, and his fatal wound was healed. And the whole earth was amazed and followed after the beast; 4 they worshiped the dragon because he gave his authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast, and who is able to wage war with him?”

12 He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. 14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who *had the wound of the sword and has come to life. 15 And it was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast, so that the image of the beast would even speak and cause as many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. 16 And he causes all, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free men and the slaves, to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and he provides that no one will be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name.

In 2 Thess 2 we are warned that full-on-deception is coming - Satan the master magician, the master illusionist that ALSo has massive Satanic power to appear, to work his miracles - to convince even the very elect.

3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. 5 Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things? 6 And you know what restrains him now, so that in his time he will be revealed. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Many Christians brush this off as only so-much-nonsense no-to-be-understood just as did the people at the time of Noah when God tried to warn them as well. They tell themselves some sort of "bedtime story" about all the ways that they need not pay any attention to these warnings ... it is all as Satan would have it in that case.

Each one has free will - they can choose as they please - but there will be a price to pay in the end.

in Christ,

Bob

robert skynner · Jan 10, 2017

BobRyan said:
.

What beliefs do you have as a humanist that makes tithing one of our top subjects here?

Well I have noticed that so many preachers whom I've met, know little and care less for the central doctrines of the Christian faith (trinity, salvation etc), but what has impressed me most has been the zeal and diligence in getting people onto a guilt trip in Christianity, so that by paying the pastor money they can then assuage their consciences. Tithing seems to be the number one doctrine in many churches in my locality, so if I understand tithing, then I understand the basis of Christianity.

BobRyan · Jan 10, 2017

robert skynner said:
Well I have noticed that so many preachers whom I've met, know little and care less for the central doctrines of the Christian faith (trinity, salvation etc), but what has impressed me most has been the zeal and diligence in getting people onto a guilt trip in Christianity, so that by paying the pastor money they can then assuage their consciences. Tithing seems to be the number one doctrine in many churches in my locality, so if I understand tithing, then I understand the basis of Christianity.

In the Bible - the tithe is used to pay the ministers, missionaries, evangelists etc. It is not used to make the church bigger or keep the lights on. That is the way we use it -- we pay the ministers with it.

Local popular "Community church" -- large tithe coming from everyone paying 10% "as tithe" goes to the pastor. In our churches all the money goes to the conferences who send it out to those that have need and return a portion of it so the local pastor gets paid. That way large churches with large tithes do not result in pastors with large salaries.

Bottom line - being an SDA pastor is not the road to wealth. And cannot be spun as "the basis of SDA Christianity"

In addition the conference office administrators are not allowed to "Vote themselves" large salaries either.

robert skynner · Jan 11, 2017

BobRyan said:
In the Bible - the tithe is used to pay the ministers, missionaries, evangelists etc. It is not used to make the church bigger or keep the lights on. That is the way we use it -- we pay the ministers with it.

Local popular "Community church" -- large tithe coming from everyone paying 10% "as tithe" goes to the pastor. In our churches all the money goes to the conferences who send it out to those that have need and return a portion of it so the local pastor gets paid. That way large churches with large tithes do not result in pastors with large salaries.

Bottom line - being an SDA pastor is not the road to wealth. And cannot be spun as "the basis of SDA Christianity"

In addition the conference office administrators are not allowed to "Vote themselves" large salaries either.

Bob thank you for your reply. I am against tithing, would you or anybody else be willing to debate me and defend the proposition: "Does the Bible command Christians to pay tithes today?"

robert skynner · Jan 11, 2017

BobRyan said:
In the Bible - the tithe is used to pay the ministers, missionaries, evangelists etc.

No it's not, it was used to pay the tribe of Levi (Numbers 18:21, Nehemiah 10:37).

BobRyan · Jan 11, 2017

robert skynner said:
No it's not, it was used to pay the tribe of Levi (Numbers 18:21, Nehemiah 10:37).

In the OT - Levi had the role of priest, teacher, Bible instructors etc.

In Hebrews 7 we are told that the priestly orders vanished at the cross. But as 1 Corinthians 12 points out we have pastors, teachers, evangelists. etc.

In Hebrews 8 Christ is our High Priest under the new order established in the NT and as it says "If He were on Earth He would not be a priest at all" - That system of priests ended - but the system of teaching, Bible instruction, pastors, evangelists continues. By definition they are not full-time-plumbers.

BobRyan · Jan 11, 2017

robert skynner said:
Bob thank you for your reply. I am against tithing, would you or anybody else be willing to debate me and defend the proposition: "Does the Bible command Christians to pay tithes today?"

Am starting a thread.

robert skynner · Jan 11, 2017

BobRyan said:
Am starting a thread.

Thank you Bob Ryan, please tell me where this thread is and what I have to do to go their.

robert skynner · Jan 20, 2017

Daniel Marsh said:
why does it matter?

According to most tradition Christian theology, we must have a correct understand of who Jesus Christ is; that he is fully and completely God (John 20:28) and also at the very same time fully and completely man (1st Timothy 2:5), two distinct natures unified in one single person, get this wrong and then they'll claim that a person will die in their sins (John 8:24). So in traditional Christian theology, our faith must be in the correct Jesus, and not in a false misrepresentation of Jesus, for the Mormon Jesus, isn't the same as the Jehovah's Witness Jesus, who isn't the same as the Jesus of the creeds etc.

What caused me to abandon Christianity was the Jesus of so many evangelical Churches local to me here in Devon in the UK, who were Trinitarian in both name and also in their doctrinal statements of faith, yet when I visited them, so many leaders within these evangelical churches argued with me that Jesus was God the Father (which is modalism)! There is a video of me outside one Church on a Sunday morning, politely asking congregants why I was told on their Alpha course that Jesus is God the Father, seven congregants leaving Church then affirm that Jesus is the Father. If you want to see this 30 minute video, where the church call the Police who then turn up, then go to YouTube and search for: "Seven Plymouth Christian Centre congregants deny the Trinity."

As somebody who now completely rejects the label Christian, and is now something of a strong critic, it appears to me that Protestant Christianity is undergoing a severe crisis, in that some 500 years after the Reformation, the overwhelming majority of people who call themselves Christians, reject both the nature of God as well as the Gospel itself, as outlined in the historic Protestant creeds, whilst strangely retaining Christian terminology which on the whole, a great many pastors local to me either don't understand or could not care less about. I also mention the gospel, as it's now common in so many local churches to mix the covenants, in that pastors will often claim that their people are saved by grace through faith alone (the new covenant), but in their very next breath, these same pastors will condemn the people who aren't tithing according to Malachi 3:8-10 (which is the old covenant). If you point out this discrepancy as I have done, then they'll simply insult you to make you leave, or physically throw you out of the building or even call the Police accusing you of either committing a hate crime or some act of harassment. All three have happened to me.

To be frank, many Christians here in Devon in the UK, take their theology more from Star Wars than from the Bible. For they see themselves as some heroic Luke Skywalker-like figure, using the (Force / Holy Ghost) to miraculously manipulate reality, just like some cosmic super hero in a Hollywood movie. Some of them have even pointed their fingers at me and then uttered tongues in order to bind supposed demons of criticism within me, so just as Luke fights with his light-saber, they'll instead use their fingers like a light-saber, in order to direct their holy ghost force by pointing the direction in which he must go to attack critics who ask difficult questions. Christianity has now become self refuting nonsense, as the witness of so many Christians here in Devon to an unbelieving world looks more and more ridiculous every day.

So rather than come clean, clean house and admit to so many errors (numerous sexual scandals being the least of these scandals), too many Christians in my part of the UK will never accept any advice or polite rebuke, they are completely unteachable and I'd argue that the major problem are the pastors, who stand between their congregants and Christ, as effective but unofficial mediators. Most priests and pastors will never renounce their unbiblical one-man band leadership positions, or their salaries, pensions, free houses and cars etc, despite the fact that in the first century Church leadership was plural and unpaid. The Church system is the problem, it's unaccountable, uncorrectable and most of those hirelings at the top of the unbiblical pyramidal structure, don't want to stand down and come off their ecclesiastical thrones.

The son of the wartime Nazi leader Martin Bormann once asked his Father what national Socialism was, his father then replied: "National Socialism is the will of the fűhrer full stop. And the fűhrer even dictates the full stop." What a brilliant summary of the slavish mentality of the Nazis, and their blind obedience to that failed painter and lunatic Adolph Hitler! But might I dare to adapt this definition to what I have experienced myself, as a Christian.

"Christianity is the will of your pastor which you must accept blindly, without question, as your pastor and his building are the unofficial mediator between yourself and Christ."

EastCoastRemnant · Jan 20, 2017

robert skynner said:
According to most tradition Christian theology, we must have a correct understand of who Jesus Christ is; that he is fully and completely God (John 20:28) and also at the very same time fully and completely man (1st Timothy 2:5), two distinct natures unified in one single person, get this wrong and then they'll claim that a person will die in their sins (John 8:24). So in traditional Christian theology, our faith must be in the correct Jesus, and not in a false misrepresentation of Jesus, for the Mormon Jesus, isn't the same as the Jehovah's Witness Jesus, who isn't the same as the Jesus of the creeds etc.

What caused me to abandon Christianity was the Jesus of so many evangelical Churches local to me here in Devon in the UK, who were Trinitarian in both name and also in their doctrinal statements of faith, yet when I visited them, so many leaders within these evangelical churches argued with me that Jesus was God the Father (which is modalism)! There is a video of me outside one Church on a Sunday morning, politely asking congregants why I was told on their Alpha course that Jesus is God the Father, seven congregants leaving Church then affirm that Jesus is the Father. If you want to see this 30 minute video, where the church call the Police who then turn up, then go to YouTube and search for: "Seven Plymouth Christian Centre congregants deny the Trinity."

As somebody who now completely rejects the label Christian, and is now something of a strong critic, it appears to me that Protestant Christianity is undergoing a severe crisis, in that some 500 years after the Reformation, the overwhelming majority of people who call themselves Christians, reject both the nature of God as well as the Gospel itself, as outlined in the historic Protestant creeds, whilst strangely retaining Christian terminology which on the whole, a great many pastors local to me either don't understand or could not care less about. I also mention the gospel, as it's now common in so many local churches to mix the covenants, in that pastors will often claim that their people are saved by grace through faith alone (the new covenant), but in their very next breath, these same pastors will condemn the people who aren't tithing according to Malachi 3:8-10 (which is the old covenant). If you point out this discrepancy as I have done, then they'll simply insult you to make you leave, or physically throw you out of the building or even call the Police accusing you of either committing a hate crime or some act of harassment. All three have happened to me.

To be frank, many Christians here in Devon in the UK, take their theology more from Star Wars than from the Bible. For they see themselves as some heroic Luke Skywalker-like figure, using the (Force / Holy Ghost) to miraculously manipulate reality, just like some cosmic super hero in a Hollywood movie. Some of them have even pointed their fingers at me and then uttered tongues in order to bind supposed demons of criticism within me, so just as Luke fights with his light-saber, they'll instead use their fingers like a light-saber, in order to direct their holy ghost force by pointing the direction in which he must go to attack critics who ask difficult questions. Christianity has now become self refuting nonsense, as the witness of so many Christians here in Devon to an unbelieving world looks more and more ridiculous every day.

So rather than come clean, clean house and admit to so many errors (numerous sexual scandals being the least of these scandals), too many Christians in my part of the UK will never accept any advice or polite rebuke, they are completely unteachable and I'd argue that the major problem are the pastors, who stand between their congregants and Christ, as effective but unofficial mediators. Most priests and pastors will never renounce their unbiblical one-man band leadership positions, or their salaries, pensions, free houses and cars etc, despite the fact that in the first century Church leadership was plural and unpaid. The Church system is the problem, it's unaccountable, uncorrectable and most of those hirelings at the top of the unbiblical pyramidal structure, don't want to stand down and come off their ecclesiastical thrones.

The son of the wartime Nazi leader Martin Bormann once asked his Father what national Socialism was, his father then replied: "National Socialism is the will of the fűhrer full stop. And the fűhrer even dictates the full stop." What a brilliant summary of the slavish mentality of the Nazis, and their blind obedience to that failed painter and lunatic Adolph Hitler! But might I dare to adapt this definition to what I have experienced myself, as a Christian.

"Christianity is the will of your pastor which you must accept blindly, without question, as your pastor and his building are the unofficial mediator between yourself and Christ."

It's sad that you abandoned the truth of God and His message because of the false teachings of men. Why did you not abandon their concept of truth and seek in your own journey, with the prayerful help of the Spirit, to lead you into all truth. It doesn't make sense you would through the precious baby out with the filthy bath water.

Your experience with what the trinity doctrine has people believing, is why I am so opposed to it. Unfortunately, modalism is what the doctrine promotes, covertly or overtly, regardless of the semantics used by it's adherents to differ. It destroys the hierarchical relationship the Father and Son have and replaces it with the unbiblical notion that they are equal. Yes, Jesus is fully Divine, but fully subservient to His Father, God.

Daniel Marsh · Jan 22, 2017

robert skynner said:
According to most tradition Christian theology, we must have a correct understand of who Jesus Christ is; that he is fully and completely God (John 20:28) and also at the very same time fully and completely man (1st Timothy 2:5), two distinct natures unified in one single person, get this wrong and then they'll claim that a person will die in their sins (John 8:24). So in traditional Christian theology, our faith must be in the correct Jesus, and not in a false misrepresentation of Jesus, for the Mormon Jesus, isn't the same as the Jehovah's Witness Jesus, who isn't the same as the Jesus of the creeds etc.

What caused me to abandon Christianity was the Jesus of so many evangelical Churches local to me here in Devon in the UK, who were Trinitarian in both name and also in their doctrinal statements of faith, yet when I visited them, so many leaders within these evangelical churches argued with me that Jesus was God the Father (which is modalism)! There is a video of me outside one Church on a Sunday morning, politely asking congregants why I was told on their Alpha course that Jesus is God the Father, seven congregants leaving Church then affirm that Jesus is the Father. If you want to see this 30 minute video, where the church call the Police who then turn up, then go to YouTube and search for: "Seven Plymouth Christian Centre congregants deny the Trinity."

As somebody who now completely rejects the label Christian, and is now something of a strong critic, it appears to me that Protestant Christianity is undergoing a severe crisis, in that some 500 years after the Reformation, the overwhelming majority of people who call themselves Christians, reject both the nature of God as well as the Gospel itself, as outlined in the historic Protestant creeds, whilst strangely retaining Christian terminology which on the whole, a great many pastors local to me either don't understand or could not care less about. I also mention the gospel, as it's now common in so many local churches to mix the covenants, in that pastors will often claim that their people are saved by grace through faith alone (the new covenant), but in their very next breath, these same pastors will condemn the people who aren't tithing according to Malachi 3:8-10 (which is the old covenant). If you point out this discrepancy as I have done, then they'll simply insult you to make you leave, or physically throw you out of the building or even call the Police accusing you of either committing a hate crime or some act of harassment. All three have happened to me.

To be frank, many Christians here in Devon in the UK, take their theology more from Star Wars than from the Bible. For they see themselves as some heroic Luke Skywalker-like figure, using the (Force / Holy Ghost) to miraculously manipulate reality, just like some cosmic super hero in a Hollywood movie. Some of them have even pointed their fingers at me and then uttered tongues in order to bind supposed demons of criticism within me, so just as Luke fights with his light-saber, they'll instead use their fingers like a light-saber, in order to direct their holy ghost force by pointing the direction in which he must go to attack critics who ask difficult questions. Christianity has now become self refuting nonsense, as the witness of so many Christians here in Devon to an unbelieving world looks more and more ridiculous every day.

So rather than come clean, clean house and admit to so many errors (numerous sexual scandals being the least of these scandals), too many Christians in my part of the UK will never accept any advice or polite rebuke, they are completely unteachable and I'd argue that the major problem are the pastors, who stand between their congregants and Christ, as effective but unofficial mediators. Most priests and pastors will never renounce their unbiblical one-man band leadership positions, or their salaries, pensions, free houses and cars etc, despite the fact that in the first century Church leadership was plural and unpaid. The Church system is the problem, it's unaccountable, uncorrectable and most of those hirelings at the top of the unbiblical pyramidal structure, don't want to stand down and come off their ecclesiastical thrones.

The son of the wartime Nazi leader Martin Bormann once asked his Father what national Socialism was, his father then replied: "National Socialism is the will of the fűhrer full stop. And the fűhrer even dictates the full stop." What a brilliant summary of the slavish mentality of the Nazis, and their blind obedience to that failed painter and lunatic Adolph Hitler! But might I dare to adapt this definition to what I have experienced myself, as a Christian.

"Christianity is the will of your pastor which you must accept blindly, without question, as your pastor and his building are the unofficial mediator between yourself and Christ."

AS I recall the Alpha course has many flaws in it. And, many protestants will not use it.

what is semi-arianism?

BobRyan

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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging

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BobRyan

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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging

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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging

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BobRyan

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BobRyan

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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging

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robert skynner

I respect the Bible but religion is damaging

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EastCoastRemnant

I Must Decrease That He May Increase

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Daniel Marsh

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