What is it with gross sin

ben24 · Jul 3, 2014

We are creations of God unless we repent and then we become children of God.

John 1-12
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Bluelion · Jul 3, 2014

Hammster said:
Keep in mind this verse:

But by Gods grace I am what I am, and His grace toward me was not ineffective. However, I worked more than any of them, yet not I, but Gods grace that was with me. (1 Corinthians 15:10 HCSB)

I can say that the difference between me and the homosexual is God's grace.

ahh but that's is not what we are talking about. we are speaking of those who take pride in sin and those who repent. You can't just change the conversation to make your self seem right.

Bluelion · Jul 3, 2014

tall73 said:
So forgive this man though he doesn't deserve it, as Christ forgave those who crucified Him.

It was Matthew 18 by the way, and Jesus who gave instructions about going to a brother who sinned against you. However, this person is not in the church it sounds like. So I am not sure why we would expect anything different from him. I would apply the first part of this passage to him:

1Co 5:9 I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people
1Co 5:10 not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.
1Co 5:11 But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindlernot even to eat with such a one.

We don't expect the non-Christian to hold the same standard.

If Jesus went among the prostitutes and tax collectors, etc. as you have often pointed out, did He only love those who repented? Did it perhaps take some time for them to come around?

Ultimately the person you met will either repent or not. But He is God's child.

Pray for this person.

Is this just a a Christians thing that they can not get over passing Judgement?

I said it was shocking the things i heard, I was discussed it by it. I was explain How i felt, and compared it with seeing sex in the streets. Should we speak out when people sin pridefully yes. If Lot had done this in sodom maybe it would still be standing. I don't think we should except it, and say oh well. No where did I say I condemned him, but fact is children play these games as well. I don't want my sons subject to such things. Children have a right to go in public places, and they should not be subject to immoral behavior. As adults the burden falls on us with protecting our kids.

Hammster · Jul 3, 2014

Bluelion said:
ahh but that's is not what we are talking about. we are speaking of those who take pride in sin and those who repent. You can't just change the conversation to make your self seem right.

I'm not changing the conversation. My whole point from the beginning was that we are no better than the man you described in the OP. The only difference is grace. You seem to think otherwise.

Bluelion · Jul 3, 2014

WHat is hypocritical about the whole thing is this guy was afraid of being reject, but no one rejected him. When i told him I was a christian He then reject me and started being rude to me.

Bluelion · Jul 3, 2014

Hammster said:
I'm not changing the conversation. My whole point from the beginning was that we are no better than the man you described in the OP. The only difference is grace. You seem to think otherwise.

yeah and my whole point was I never said i was better, but stated there is a difference in people who take pride in there sin and those who repent of it, and I also said those who take pride in sin can not be forgive for it.

tall73 · Jul 3, 2014

Bluelion said:
Is this just a a Christians thing that they can not get over passing Judgement?

Can you please explain what you mean here. I do not understand.

Bluelion · Jul 3, 2014

tall73 said:
Can you please explain what you mean here. I do not understand.

The major complaint I have heard from people who are not Christians are they are so judgmental, and I look to see if this is true and yes i have found most christian are quick to judge.

Take this thread i was judged as putting my self above this guy, or saying he is more of sinner which I never said.

Jesus focused more on love and calling then judging. It is a real problem in the church.

tall73 · Jul 4, 2014

Bluelion said:
The major complaint I have heard from people who are not Christians are they are so judgmental, and I look to see if this is true and yes i have found most christian are quick to judge.

Take this thread i was judged as putting my self above this guy, or saying he is more of sinner which I never said.

Jesus focused more on love and calling then judging. It is a real problem in the church.

So let me get this straight. You start a thread calling this guy's behavior disgusting, saying he is spreading gross sin, flaunting his sin, that you won't waste what is holy on him, etc. but I am the one judging because I mention you should forgive him?

Hm......

I am not judging you. I am not saying that his behavior should not bother you. It would bother anyone who was grieved by sin. I only said to understand that if he is not saved he is likely to be living according to what the flesh prompts him to do, and I recommended you forgive him as Jesus forgave those who crucified Him--not waiting for any apology.

tall73 · Jul 4, 2014

duplicate.

Bluelion · Jul 4, 2014

tall73 said:
So let me get this straight. You start a thread calling this guy's behavior disgusting, saying he is spreading gross sin, flaunting his sin, that you won't waste what is holy on him, etc. but I am the one judging because I mention you should forgive him?

Hm......

I am not judging you. I am not saying that his behavior should not bother you. It would bother anyone who was grieved by sin. I only said to understand that if he is not saved he is likely to be living according to what the flesh prompts him to do, and I recommended you forgive him as Jesus forgave those who crucified Him--not waiting for any apology.

and who said I didn't forgive him?

I used God judgement not my own, but as some have implied I think I am better than him or am not forgiving Him, those are personal judgement, and false. God gave us His judgments to use, however, he warned against making personal judgments on others. Judge not less you be judged for the measure you measure to other shall be measured back to you.

God said homosexuality was wrong, in fact said it was shameful, against nature, and an offense to Him. God also calls people to repent not take pride in it. i would be just as shock if it was a woman behaving this way. Its all sexual immorality and it is not ok.

I have been defending my self almost this whole thread, and what great offensives did i commit? I said I was shock at this mans open willing and pride in his sin. It appear you think there is something wrong with me feeling this way that I should just accept it and say ok that is fine. That is worldly thinking, not God's.

good day

Bluelion · Jul 4, 2014

Bluelion said:
I been playing this game online, and couple of guys i been grouping with all adults invite this new guy. he is gay worried we would reject him no one does. the whole time we were playing the game he is talking about what he would like to do to members in the party. in graphic language. i mention I am in school for ministry, does nothing to stop him. i mention all the guys are straight with girlfriends or wives. He reply's there is a guy for every man, and this is my problem with some gays, they have no respect for straight men. This might surprise some gays, but i am comfortable enough with who I am to know I am not gay. I am not geared that way. I could not be if I wanted to. I find it sick. My God finds it offensive.

I think he got worse when he new i was in ministry. That is fine flaunt your sin, but I should have asked him would he do while being lowered into hell? How proud of his sin would he be then? i love everyone but some people are just evil. i feel like i was word raped with what I read him saying. I guess i was there to bare witness against him.

i believe in loving everyone, but if you are proud of your sin, if you want all to see it, you deserve hell. God was right they are completely perverse.Of course God is never wrong. I guess i expect the same respect i gave him with not preaching to him. But I did not not preach to him for him, but for God. God said don't waste what is Holy on the unholy.

So now tv shows have strong sexual content and nudity on tv. This comes from porn industry and gays faulting sex. The tv show dominion was the first i know of to do this its on tnt about angels going to war with humans. And of course there is a human chosen one to save the human race. This person is a hero on Tv but is preparing the people of the world for anti christ.

Does any one else see how tv is implanting the idea of human savior. Jesus is that savior, but they speak of a sinful man. They are paving the way for the lawless one. Jesus had John the Baptist the anti christ has TV and movies and music.

I can not enjoy a game any more, I am not from this world, and games online connect with the world.

I feel bad for kids playing these things.

here is what I said I don't see a lot of judgement being passed on him with what I said it was more about how I felt.

The one thing could take issue with is I said if people are prideful of there sin they deserve hell, in truth we all deserve hell its by grace we are saved.

I am getting a little sick of defending my self every time I post to the same group of people. truly you are not my brothers or i would not have to defend my self to you time and time again.

tall73 · Jul 4, 2014

Bluelion said:
and who said I didn't forgive him?

I don't know, who did say that?

You post this scenario, and we gave our take on it. My take was forgiveness. I don't assume one way or the other that you did anything. Then you said I was judging you. How? I just recommended what I thought for the situation.

You roll into these threads with a chip no your shoulder a mile wide. There are few folks here that you have not had run-ins with. At some point the common feature is you.

I have been defending my self almost this whole thread, and what great offensives did i commit? I said I was shock at this mans open willing and pride in his sin. It appear you think there is something wrong with me feeling this way that I should just accept it and say ok that is fine. That is worldly thinking, not God's.

good day

You are defending yourself at times against people who never attacked you in the first place.

And if you read what I said I in no way said his behavior was fine. However, as an unsaved person, in a permissive society, I just don't expect much different. Especially when many in the church live in fleshly ways as well.

Bluelion · Jul 5, 2014

tall73 said:
I don't know, who did say that?

You post this scenario, and we gave our take on it. My take was forgiveness. I don't assume one way or the other that you did anything. Then you said I was judging you. How? I just recommended what I thought for the situation.

You roll into these threads with a chip no your shoulder a mile wide. There are few folks here that you have not had run-ins with. At some point the common feature is you.

You are defending yourself at times against people who never attacked you in the first place.

And if you read what I said I in no way said his behavior was fine. However, as an unsaved person, in a permissive society, I just don't expect much different. Especially when many in the church live in fleshly ways as well.

so your judgement is I have a "chip on my shoulder a mile wide"? i like how you say you are not judging me while you judge me.

Fact is they are false judgement, I have no chip, but like hamster was attacking me saying I was not better than him i never said that.

You did not say your take on it was to forgive, you said forgive him which implies I have not.

Then you judge me while saying you did not judge me, i guess saying I have a chip on my shoulder is not attack me right, but it is against the rules address the post and not the poster.

Your a hypocrite. i guess I am just common folk

i seem to have this group that follows me around and likes to attack what I said. i notice you did not post in my thread where i speak of losing a friend, didn't feel like acting like a brother huh? or was it you could not attack me in it.

i don't need to defend my self to my brothers and sisters. If you could point out any thing I said which was against God's Word i would love to see that.

You and others seem to be on a crusade against me and why is it always the same group of people Hmmm That's ok Jesus was treated the same, and I stand, not because i have great strength, but because God is with me. Mite suprise you to know i am not mad or aggravated in the least. i feel indifferent about the whole thing, but make no mistake I see what is going on.

tall73 · Jul 5, 2014

Bluelion said:
so your judgement is I have a "chip on my shoulder a mile wide"? i like how you say you are not judging me while you judge me.

Fact is they are false judgement, I have no chip, but like hamster was attacking me saying I was not better than him i never said that.

You did not say your take on it was to forgive, you said forgive him which implies I have not.

I said forgive him which implies I think you should forgive him. The scenario was presented and I stated what I thought was the appropriate action.

I had no thought in my mind to judge one way or the other.

Then you judge me while saying you did not judge me, i guess saying I have a chip on my shoulder is not attack me right, but it is against the rules address the post and not the poster.

Your a hypocrite. i guess I am just common folk

I said I was not judging you before. And I was not.

Of course I am judging you now about your constant fighting. It is getting quite old.

When I said you have a chip on your shoulder it is because you have been in countless fights on these boards with nearly everyone here.

Now when I first posted I had no thought of judging you at all about this incident. I was simply saying that I thought you should forgive, as that is what the scenario called for.

If you want to take that as judging you that is just your taking it that way.

Now as to hypocrite, yeah, everyone in the world is a hypocrite, and we are all sinners. However, I was not being a hypocrite by saying I was not judging you earlier.

I am definitely judging your willingness to take exception to everyone. Stop it.

i seem to have this group that follows me around and likes to attack what I said. i notice you did not post in my thread where i speak of losing a friend, didn't feel like acting like a brother huh? or was it you could not attack me in it.

I didn't post in any thread but this one lately because I haven't had time to read them all the way through. This one caught my attention so I read it, and commented on it. Unless I have a lot of time I try not to participate in a bunch of threads at once because I cannot keep up.

And last I checked I agreed with you in the law thread, and indicated that the other poster had started the personal attacks. How is that being against you?

i don't need to defend my self to my brothers and sisters. If you could point out any thing I said which was against God's Word i would love to see that.

Yes, please stop defending yourself and start apologizing for fighting with everyone, and thinking everyone is out to get you.

Now to your credit, you have apologized at times. However, then you go right back to the same behavior. Is it really that there is a whole group of people here set on attacking you? Or is it that you find attacks with what people say?

Folks here are not out to get you. In fact, I don't think anyone here is out to get you.

Now I agree Hammster does seem to like to comment back and forth with you, but that seems to be his approach everywhere. Despite that I don't think he is actually making personal attacks in most cases. He just posts tersely with everyone that I can tell.

As to posting against God's word, this was never an issue of posting against God's word. I have not made that accusation either, so why make that defense?

You and others seem to be on a crusade against me and why is it always the same group of people Hmmm That's ok Jesus was treated the same, and I stand, not because i have great strength, but because God is with me. Mite suprise you to know i am not mad or aggravated in the least. i feel indifferent about the whole thing, but make no mistake I see what is going on.

You and I have only had two threads, that I recall, where we disagreed, this one and the spanking one. And I am somehow out to get you? How does that follow? If I am supposed to be part of a crusade against you, I am certainly not doing my part. I have not been following you around. I don't even know if you post outside of this forum. I have just been commenting here in some of the threads because it is my home denominational forum, as it is yours.

Why would anyone take the time to organize a crusade against you in the Christian Forums? We come to share our opinion. It is not an attack on you to have a different opinion. And it is not an attack to disagree. If you post something that happened in your life, folks are likely to give an opinion on that. It doesn't mean they are all judging you. And while I agree you were attacked for your faith by the man in the OP, you are not being attacked here.

Your have been painting this picture that you and Jesus are being attacked by people at this board for a while. However, I have not seen that this is warranted. You seem to be taking lots of things as attacks that are not.

tall73 · Jul 5, 2014

Let's review your interaction with Hammster here.

His first post in this thread:

Hammster said:
We all flaunt our sin, every time we sin. This man was no worse than us, if we remember that Christ is the benchmark, and not how good we are compared to others.

This is his take. He thinks all sin is bad and that we are all sinners. It is a theological postulation on the general subject of degrees of sin.

He responded to the notion of "gross" sin, by indicating that ultimately all sin is failure to live up to Christ's perfection.

Now do I think some sins are particularly offensive to us? Yes. And some sins are punished more severely? Yes. So in that sense I get what you were saying. On the other hand it is true that we are all sinners and all in need of grace. And all of us were under the penalty of the law for all of our sins.

Now to this theological point that Hammster made, you replied:

Bluelion said:
yes he was, talking in public in great detail about how he wanted to have sex with the guys in a group. That is no different than having sex in the streets. wake up. Stumbling when we sin is different than willfully bragging about your sin. I am sorry you don't know the difference.

Emphasis supplied.

Your words are aggressive. They are pointed at Hammster directly. They are not just directed at the theological concept he espoused.

It does not appear from this exchange that he was out to get you. It appears he disagreed about the relative weight of one sin against another.

When you say "wake up" you are indicating he is apparently spiritually sleeping. And then you feel sorry for your perception that he lacks what you consider basic knowledge.

If anyone broke out the flamethrower in this thread it was you. Then you get surprised when folks don't like being burned.

Now after your response he did then respond back to you more personally. Perhaps he should not. However, you took off the gloves in this thread.

And from that point on the whole conversation took on the "you are persecuting Jesus and me" tone that many of your threads wind up in.

Was he really? Or did you simply take your disagreement with his statement to a personal level?

Hammster · Jul 5, 2014

Bluelion said:
yeah and my whole point was I never said i was better, but stated there is a difference in people who take pride in there sin and those who repent of it, and I also said those who take pride in sin can not be forgive for it.

You should go back an read your OP. This point was nowhere put forth.

Hammster · Jul 5, 2014

Bluelion said:
here is what I said I don't see a lot of judgement being passed on him with what I said it was more about how I felt.

The one thing could take issue with is I said if people are prideful of there sin they deserve hell, in truth we all deserve hell its by grace we are saved.

I am getting a little sick of defending my self every time I post to the same group of people. truly you are not my brothers or i would not have to defend my self to you time and time again.

If you don't see judgement in your OP, then maybe that's the problem.

tall73 · Jul 5, 2014

Bluelion said:
I do believe Paul said if a christian sins against you point it out to him, if he will not repent get 2 brothers and point it out and if still no bring it before the church and if the man will still not repent, you are to treat him as a pagan or corrupt tax collector.

So its clear a person is not forgiven unless they repent, and I am not obligated to forgive a person who does not repent.

Now, back to what I was trying to discuss before all the judging talk.

It was Jesus who said this in Matthew 18. However, He said it speaking of people in the church. My point was that we cannot apply the same method to those in the church and those out of it.

That is why I quoted from Paul later in I Corinthians that while we are not to eat or fellowship with believers who blatantly conduct sinful lifestyles, Paul does not say that of those in the world.

Yes, they must repent ultimately to be forgiven. Yet we do not break off fellowship with them. And through our fellowship we have an opportunity to represent Christ.

So my point was not trying to say that the person was acting just fine. He was acting sinfully. However, Paul does not say to break off fellowship with him for these behaviors because he is not a believer. He is doing naturally what comes of the flesh.

Bluelion · Jul 5, 2014

Lol yeah I stop reading both your post. It always goes the same one, one jumps on and then other jump on and then I am defending my self to 3 and four people against little old me lol

Personally i don't care. It mite surprise you but I have a group of friends on here who i don't fight with yet we disagree at times. So How is it I am always fighting with one group. You judgement that i fight with every one is a lie, so you want to judge me some more while you sin.

If I am not saying anything against God's word then what is your issue with me? Sounds like it is personal and not Godly then, and which are we to live by personal or Godly?

As you said i have said sorry when i was wrong I have no problem saying, however, in this case you are wrong.

and you guys both lie, now ham said I never said there is a deference between Pride in sin and repenting.

I am done here. I simply really don't care either way for either you, and I am done defending my self, because Guess what you are not the judge.

and i rest my case about what I said other people say about Christians they are very judgmental.

So ham what were my judgement on the man? Point them out, but you never back up what you say.

What is it with gross sin

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