what is good support for friends of trauma survivors?

JoshuaM · Jun 11, 2007

i am reading psychology books, both Christian and nonChristian, spending time in the Word, talking to brothers in Jesus. But I welcome advice in showing care for my long distance friend who has been through a lot of traumatic circumstances.

LoG · Jun 14, 2007

Wonderful sentiment on the face of it JoshuaM. In my experience however, it is good for one to look at their motivations. Is there a desire to become her therapist? A shoulder to cry on? Or simply be a friend?

Trying to be someone you are not is not being true to yourself and by extension , her. It borders on codependency.
If one has not been affected in the same way, then the best support one can provide imo, is by helping them to find a safe place to start the recovery process. If they are not ready for that then it will be very difficult to do anything.

The focus of support groups for family and friends of survivors is on how not to get overly enmeshed in the in the problem.

JoshuaM · Jun 14, 2007

Lion of God said:
Wonderful sentiment on the face of it JoshuaM. In my experience however, it is good for one to look at their motivations. Is there a desire to become her therapist? A shoulder to cry on? Or simply be a friend?

Trying to be someone you are not is not being true to yourself and by extension , her. It borders on codependency.
If one has not been affected in the same way, then the best support one can provide imo, is by helping them to find a safe place to start the recovery process. If they are not ready for that then it will be very difficult to do anything.

The focus of support groups for family and friends of survivors is on how not to get overly enmeshed in the in the problem.

Well in the past I was her friend, counselor, and spiritual mentor, not to forget.. I have been her boyfriend off and on. I just want to be more professional. It is funny you are saying codependency and assume I am trying to be somebody I am not. I am not actually certain I know what you are saying here either.

LoG · Jun 15, 2007

JoshuaM said:
Well in the past I was her friend, counselor, and spiritual mentor, not to forget.. I have been her boyfriend off and on. I just want to be more professional.

Although each role can overlap somewhat, they will very quickly start to conflict with each other.

It is funny you are saying codependency and assume I am trying to be somebody I am not. I am not actually certain I know what you are saying here either.

I am saying to look at your motivations. Are you looking to be her friend? Then be a friend. A counselor? Then be a counselor and drop the friend/boyfriend motivations. The time will come that the two roles will conflict if it hasn't already.

The codependency is where we do the right thing but for the wrong reasons. ie. trying to be everything for somebody else so we can stay in some form of relationship. This why I say be true to yourself and your own motivations.

I am not trying to rain on your parade here but trying to give you some benefit of my own experience in an similar relationship some years ago. The foundation of the relationship was her recovery from the abuse and when she finally moved past it, there was nothing else in common of any real substance. The relationship quickly fell apart.
I had spent so much time and effort in being a counselor that she no longer was able to see me as a boyfriend or friend even. So in spite of having tried my best to fulfill all the roles she needed, my true motivation was never satisfied.

JoshuaM · Jun 15, 2007

i'm not trying to be something i not. I do everything because I love her. I already can counsel to some degree. the counseling study will help some things. But I assure you, I am not lying to myself etc. I am not going to be a counselor by profession but I really don't have any hidden agenda etc.

I'm not going to be just a friend.. I am being who I am and that may be hard to understand but God has already helped me do all the necessary roles as a man in a long-term relationship.. The only conflict is from third parties trying to tell us what our motivations are and us listening. this is not an attack on you. this is simply what has happened to us.

I have to be honest, you are saying a lot of the exact same words she does when she is talking to other people who seem to be against her relationship with me when they really know nothing of it. She comes to me and compares me to herself with things other people tell her is wrong with her.. or things people tell her is wrong with me based simply on putting a lot of words in her mouth or mine. saying that just because they cannot do something a certain way, neither can anybody else. Saying if somebody does a lot, they must be another person who has an agenda that is negative or selfish.

I tell the truth, I have to do what is within my ability. That is what I am doing. and I tell the truth in every way about this. and no matter what other agendas other people had that did something to somebody, or simply doing all sorts of wrong things, etc. I know what my motivations are. I will stand up for myself, and despite me trying to get some advice about her, I will also stand up for her. her and we were going to get married. It may happen still. And I must take all responsibilities and learn to be support, a leader, etc and not be an enabler. I am reading these books in order to talk to her and build her up and maintain a healthy relationship. and I probably will not explain myself more here as currently i feel I have said enough. I do realize a lot of people do not understand and I cannot make people understand.

LoG · Jun 15, 2007

JoshuaM said:
i'm not trying to be something i not. I do everything because I love her. I already can counsel to some degree. the counseling study will help some things. But I assure you, I am not lying to myself etc. I am not going to be a counselor by profession but I really don't have any hidden agenda etc.

I'm not going to be just a friend.. I am being who I am and that may be hard to understand but God has already helped me do all the necessary roles as a man in a long-term relationship.. The only conflict is from third parties trying to tell us what our motivations are and us listening. this is not an attack on you. this is simply what has happened to us.

First off Josh, I am not against you. I knew from the start that you had feelings for this girl. I wasn't saying to question your motivations for her sake but your own. I am sure that in your own mind they are on the up and up as far as it relates to the two of you being in a relationship. That unfortunately is where some of the potential conflict of interest lies. There is a strong possibility that she may need some time to herself to sort things out without being enmeshed in a relationship already. Would you recognize that if it comes to it? Would you be even willing to consider the possibility that for her emotional and spiritual well-being she may be best off not being in relationship, with little or no contact from you? For this reason alone it would be impossible to be an effective and impartial counselor which is a must for her to recover from what she has been through.

I realize you are not willing to face this but the reality is that everything you have written so far in this thread I could have copied and pasted into my own post 6-7 years ago. I too thought my situation was totally unique and that God had prepared me for the job at hand with the talents I would require to see it through.
The road of broken hearts is littered with men and women who went what we went through. I also prayed for His guidance. The only problem was that I ignored the guidance He gave me, when it wasn't what I wanted to hear.
Instead of giving the girlfriend time and patience, whenever I felt her pulling away, I would redouble my efforts to fix her instead of allowing God to heal her. The more my efforts, the more she pulled away.

She didn't need me to fix her. She needed me to stand with her while she went through the healing God was trying to affect in her. To stand with her, I needed to be a friend , not a counselor. Someone to listen to her and empathize, not fix. Someone to laugh with her and have some fun, not another sermon.

And with that I will stop preaching. You wanted some advice on how to support her so here is my recommendations for books you can read.

Codependent No More- Melody Beatty (for you)
Men are from Mars, Women from Venus (for the relationship)
Bible-Specifically verses dealing with forgiveness (for her)

And check out the 5 stages of grieving so she knows where she is in the process:

1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Sadness, Depression
5. Acceptance/forgiveness

The more you can resist the temptation to fix and counsel her, the better your chances for a happy ending.

Peace

JoshuaM · Jun 15, 2007

you do seem to want to corner me though. and the guy that wrote men are from mars, women are from venus based it on his relationship which he messed up and wrote a book about break up afterwards..

and you virtually reversed a lot of the things i said.. and said exactly what i said because i said you said exactly what she does when she is being influenced by others. Insisting everything is about codependency and being one of those people who want to insist we do not talk. what are your motivations for suggesting we do not talk at all? as far as i know you don't really know either of us so you don't really know what is best and frankly nobody can know our hearts but God and ourselves..

LoG · Jun 16, 2007

JoshuaM said:
you do seem to want to corner me though. and the guy that wrote men are from mars, women are from venus based it on his relationship which he messed up and wrote a book about break up afterwards..

I've heard it said that an intelligent man learns from his own mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which would you rather be?

and you virtually reversed a lot of the things i said.. and said exactly what i said because i said you said exactly what she does when she is being influenced by others. Insisting everything is about codependency and being one of those people who want to insist we do not talk. what are your motivations for suggesting we do not talk at all?

I am not insisting you do not talk. I am trying to point out some things so that it doesn't have to come to that.
You say you want to learn how to support and counsel her but then reject any suggestions and advice on what pitfalls to avoid. Instead of stubbornly rejecting anything that threatens your status with her, try to look at it through the eyes of another. Why are these people telling her to get out of the relationship? Why do they see you as a threat to her well-being?
Someone who is easily influenced can get in quite a turmoil when they are getting pulled in several different directions at once. The resulting confusion can be so much that the person will do anything to relieve it up to and including getting rid of the boyfriend if his way is substantially different from what the others are advising. The more you are in conflict with others who are advising her, the more the potential for it backfiring on you.
God may very well be using you as a catalyst for her growth while at the same time using her for yours.

as far as i know you don't really know either of us so you don't really know what is best and frankly nobody can know our hearts but God and ourselves..

I'm sure your heart is in the right place just as mine was when I was going through a similar scenario.
I don't know you or her but I am very familiar with the dynamics of your situation. I lived and breathed it for about 5 years.
You can be the intelligent man and hopefully learn from your own mistakes....after the fact, or you can have the humility to realize that your situation is not so unique and learn from the mistakes of others. The choice is yours.

JoshuaM · Jun 16, 2007

Lion of God said:
I've heard it said that an intelligent man learns from his own mistakes but a wise man learns from the mistakes of others. Which would you rather be?

i can learn from you, but i do not have the same motivations as you and neither am i the same as you. so i do not need to copy you. Just because you had wrong motivations and did something wrong doesn't mean everybody else needs to be the same as you.

I am not insisting you do not talk. I am trying to point out some things so that it doesn't have to come to that.
You say you want to learn how to support and counsel her but then reject any suggestions and advice on what pitfalls to avoid.

again assuming i am the same as you and insisting you are correct. you do not know my heart and you do not know the extent of how i do things or why.

Instead of stubbornly rejecting anything that threatens your status with her, try to look at it through the eyes of another. Why are these people telling her to get out of the relationship? Why do they see you as a threat to her well-being?

people are saying that because they want her for themselves, or because they haven't talked to me at all. She often tells what she imagines more than what actually happens and often not only are people only listening to that, but asking her questions and assuming things then advising before she answers the questions. People no nothing about me. It is an alternate agenda and people refusing to find out the truth.

AGAIN I AM NOT THE SAME AS YOU

Someone who is easily influenced can get in quite a turmoil when they are getting pulled in several different directions at once. The resulting confusion can be so much that the person will do anything to relieve it up to and including getting rid of the boyfriend if his way is substantially different from what the others are advising. The more you are in conflict with others who are advising her, the more the potential for it backfiring on you.

well yeah she is following others instructions but they are cultists, athiests, people that encourage living in sin, people that want to date her or just have sex with her, and naive people that don't want to even examine the fact that she might be wrong.

God may very well be using you as a catalyst for her growth while at the same time using her for yours.

so what? that doesn't make you correct about anything else.

I'm sure your heart is in the right place just as mine was when I was going through a similar scenario.
I don't know you or her but I am very familiar with the dynamics of your situation. I lived and breathed it for about 5 years.
You can be the intelligent man and hopefully learn from your own mistakes....after the fact, or you can have the humility to realize that your situation is not so unique and learn from the mistakes of others. The choice is yours.

you may have had a similar situation but you do not know my heart. just because yours was a mistake doesn't make mine one so quit trying to prove that mine is a mistake etc.

Akathist · Jun 16, 2007

Joshua, consider the possibility that you are trying to do too much for someone.

Sometimes the best way to help someone is to allow them the space they need to work through their issues with the help of professional counselors.

JoshuaM · Jun 16, 2007

the problem is most if not all of her counsel is unprofessional with another agenda..

whether i do too much or not, that is not the issue in this thread now. this thread was me asking how i can help her and the situation.

I did not leave it open to bash Josh.

The thread geared to ask how i can help her has become about that other guy trying to prove i am the same as him which i am not. nobody else knows my heart but myself and God and needs to stop assuming they do.

goldenviolet · Jun 16, 2007

josh, i understand what you are refering to. last night when we spoke; i did not know about this thread.
i wish i had seen it. i also pray that everyone sorts out the misunderstandings... it looks like this thread has got some good points. perhaps the way the advice is given sounds alittle harsh because you love her and want so much to bless her. bless your heart. the bonds of our feelings towards others sometimes give us a perspective that can change our own views on how we'd even evaluate another's situation. lol. anyway, if i may meditate alittle here. it looks like your veiws are centered on your concern, love, and ministry to be there for her. the other views seem to be comming from the factual and appearance, as well as life exsperiances side of things. really, combined it's all the same. just a different approach.

i really wished i had posted what i sent you. perhaps our conversation could have benifeted others. you were right. many people are in the process of healing, growth, and recovery from traumas. there is such a sadness and brokeness in our world of people hurting.

all in all, this is a lovely discussion. reaching out to the members in the world who are in need of the right kind of support, is exactly what recovery needs. both for those in trial; and those in ministry. i think it helps all of us see the types of resources available to us.

~ peace and love! xo dee

JoshuaM · Jun 16, 2007

well my point is the views of lion are factual in his life and situation but not in my own. sometimes the way a person perceives something is not what is real. I am not refusing to admit that I am wrong out of foolishness. I am not agreeing because I am not wrong. I know what I am doing more than any other person knows what I do. Like I said, i know my heart more than any other person knows my heart, and only God knows better than me who I am and what I do.

The survivor in this situation had predefined suspicions that anybody and everybody is dangerous. That is why when she speaks of me, I seem to be dangerous to anybody that does not know me. Then added to that problem, there are a lot of people advising her drawing on their weaknesses and weaknesses of people that have hurt them. Then also added to that problem, there are people that have selfish agendas. That is a problem.

Then when all these are combined, instead of helping the situation it becomes a pattern of enabling the inability to trust. It becomes a pattern that enables the negative (however often unintentional) behaviors. So often when she is afraid, and she types something in confusion and then somebody puts words in her mouth and advises on that, and she listens, it becomes a problem. It makes her think i really am here out of codependency and selfishness and am endangering her, even though I am not here out of selfishness and I am not endangering her. Even if sometimes there is some codependency issues we have, that isn't why i am here. You are correct in saying my views are centered on my concern, love, and ministry to be there for her.

so you see, it isn't just our relationship that that advise is endangering.. while she believes I am the one endangering her, it is really a lot of those advisers. and since they are a lot of unprofessionals with other agendas often, and only see one side, often only on the surface, they tend to say similar things..

You see, a lot of us will see some obvious things and comment on those, but the hardest part is discerning which is correct. when so many people give the same advice, no matter how wrong it is, and only a few people say the opposite, it is easier to believe what the others say is correct. This becomes a problem like I said.

goldenviolet · Jun 16, 2007

what are her needs though? i 'm taking in that she needs to be in the healling process away from a man. any man. i'm reading that she needs you to except her boundries and approve of them, so she feels independant, and can sort things out without the pressure of your feelings and past relationship. i'm seeing that you disagree. but this is about her needs. she and any person breaking from abuse, needs to be encouraged to have there own boundries on their own terms. right for her in your eyes or not. she's not ready for anything else. the biggest gift you can give her is to stand back, with approval that she is setting boundries and determined to be independant. important steps in healling. ... during this time of standing back; strengthen your relationship with a men's group/study. get some insight into the male role model for families. you're going to need alot of support and knowledge if you are going to wait for her on her terms; and her terms may never meet with yours. she may not be your rib. i think you should consider this time (if you are willing to recieve my opinion..lol) as time on the mount.
love dee

JoshuaM · Jun 16, 2007

goldenviolet said:
what are her needs though? i 'm taking in that she needs to be in the healling process away from a man. any man. i'm reading that she needs you to except her boundries and approve of them, so she feels independant, and can sort things out without the pressure of your feelings and past relationship. i'm seeing that you disagree. but this is about her needs.

i don't disagree with not dating or not marrying at this time. I would like to date her or marry her right now but i am not trying to do that even though i ask for the relationship restored. What I had been trying to prove is that I am not dangerous and she still can trust me and that she doesn't need to be afraid to talk to me. If she is encouraged to see me as an enemy, I cannot help her as much. Certainly God will do most of the work, but she needs to know that God used me before and can still use me and I really am her friend.

she and any person breaking from abuse, needs to be encouraged to have there own boundries on their own terms. right for her in your eyes or not. she's not ready for anything else. the biggest gift you can give her is to stand back, with approval that she is setting boundries and determined to be independant. important steps in healling. ... during this time of standing back;

yes and i am doing that, but it is hard. Especially with all the people telling her I am "endangering her" simply because she perceives many things through her fear. Like I said, I want to protect her but I have to allow her to make her mistakes and talk when she is ready. Even if the real people endangering her are people she is listening to. Besides God is more powerful then them and then any mistake she might make in confusion.

strengthen your relationship with a men's group/study. get some insight into the male role model for families. you're going to need alot of support and knowledge if you are going to wait for her on her terms; and her terms may never meet with yours. she may not be your rib. i think you should consider this time (if you are willing to recieve my opinion..lol) as time on the mount.
love dee

time on the mount? what does that mean? i don't understand but this is certainly a good time to grow closer to God and become a better Christian man. I already have materials about that. That is another reason I bought Christian counseling books. They are not just so i know how to talk to my friend, but to help me with my own problems and help me look to God. There is no small group for me at this time but I have been talking to Christian men online. I do fellowship outside of the internet when I can, but I have to go with what I am given and focus on serving the Lord.

I have considered that things may never be the way we had liked them to be, and now it seems how i like them to be. But our relationship with the Lord is what is the key to everything.

Some people, even Christians try to tell her and myself that we need a relationship with a person to help us get through our issues, but that is not true. We need God as our foundation, not a human.

goldenviolet · Jul 1, 2007

you seem so sure of everything you believe. sure and ready to defend it to the bone. 'time on the mount' refers to the prophets ans saints; including Jesus... when they spent time away on the mountain to search out and purify/refresh themselves in God's will.

i'm going by solely what i'm reading from you, because i do not know you. i don't know her either, but i do know women in general, and about abuse. not being an exspert, or having first hand knowlege; i place before you a thought to think upon in a search for your answer/sign that you seek for. my thought is this:
if i were this young woman... with the history between us, the determination of your beliefs, your veiws of me as needing you, and your biblical certainty of what you are to me: i'd think you were overbearing and controlling.

it really is sad for me to present this thought to you. i see your determination and your desire to be a man of God and a presentable male to her. i'm just getting that you're not going to be sucessful, until you see her needs only. an example (pure spectulation on my part again), of her needs, are that she and you are so different, and your 'controlling' and 'oppressive' manner is just way too scary to build upon or work at tearing down walls with.

this has got to be a hard post to read. i remain very compassionate to you. i'd like for this all just to be a tought. no judgement or an exsaperation post was intendend. i'm only trying to point out in better detail, that you may need to step way back, before you can provide what she needs/ and in her eyes, she may need alot different.

blessings to you!~ love dee

JoshuaM · Jul 2, 2007

i think you misunderstand me. i say how much we need the Lord.

I say there are others that think we need to date and marry people to overcome our burdens etc, but I disagree with that.

I was asking for healing for our relationship. I do not know which way the Lord will have it done. Maybe just friends. He seems to heal the friendship thing for now.

When I talked about she needs to know I am still her friend and not dangerous, that is what i meant, i did not mean she needs me to be herself. I mean she needs to know I am not her enemy or some force of evil, but I love her and I am her friend. I meant she should know the truth.

It is not a time for us to date and i do not know if I ever will. But I do know truth is important, and so is unity in the Lord.

as for my psychology books, i may not read them until i feel led. i believe they can help me communicate better. I am a depression too needing to overcome depression, but sometimes it still is hard to communicate over a distance.

goldenviolet · Jul 3, 2007

bless your heart ... if you'd ever like to get some cheering up and encouragment concerning your depression; pop me a pm. ... about her: do you belong to the same denomination? i understand you live long distance. what activities do you do together?

JoshuaM · Jul 3, 2007

we basically are the same beliefs because we do not belong to denominations. We are non-denominational Christians.

We are not dating right now and since long distance we discuss God, working, and daily life. She tries to advise me on how to improve job skills, i am trying to encourage her and show God's love and help her find counsel. I know this not a prayer forum, but please pray for us. We need stronger faith in the Lord and we both need His help to overcome depression. We both need more wisdom and discernment too. thanks.

goldenviolet · Jul 3, 2007

every forum is a prayer forum we most in prayer requests to get better fellowship in prayer; but you can request prayer on anything. bless your hearts.
i asked about denomination because i was wondering if you had church resources to utilize. do non-denomination churches have resources? i've called a friend's church before and requested support in areas that i could not help with being in a different state.

what is good support for friends of trauma survivors?

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