What is an ordinance?

what are the 2?

I can think of 3 one which should be

Ordinance according to us dunkers means, "obedience to a command that Christ has given us" in the manner we keep the Lord's Supper and practice baptism.

I think what the difference is is these were commands to do in worship of God. Directly relating to service in the church.

The 3rd that should be is the day of Pentecost the founding of the church by The Holy Spirit. It is not commanded to observe this but it should be remembered.

charles1014 said:

Baptist recognize just two ordinances for the church; what makes an ordinance an ordinance? And what caused the Church to recognize them as something that needed to be observed?

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In my understanding of the 2, they both are testimonies to the salvation of the person observing them. Baptism testifies that one is saved .. Communion testifies not only that one is saved (blood/wine) but that one is in a right relationship with God today (body/bread .. which is the reason why confession should precede communion). We are sharing in Christ's life.

I believe we call them ordinances rather than sacraments because sacraments are done to appease God and for God to give us grace — or, at least, that was the tradition. Ordinances are, rather, a testimony to one another of our faith. In some churches, reciting the Apostle's Creed (which they do every Sunday) might be viewed as a similar ordinance.

But do you see now why closed communion is really meant to be the proper manner in which to take communion?

skypair

Getting ready to duck after asking this....



Is feet-washing an ordinance?

charles1014 said:

Some of the things that you are describing about ordinances, like testimony and sharing in Christ's life and the showing of our faith in Christ; would we not also include tithing as that could be argued on the same points?

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No, mainly because is it not commanded in the NT. There is always the danger of mixing law with grace because it one is bound by the law, then one is no longer under grace.

skypair

convicted1 said:

Is feet-washing an ordinance?

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Yes, actually it is part of the ordinance of communion (re: Jn 13:4-10, 1Cor 11:31-33). Recall, before the Lord's Supper, Jesus washed their feet in preparation for the Eucharist. It is included by Paul with his saying that "when you come together to eat [communion], tarry for one another." There is supposed to be a time of getting right with each other and with God, salvation, if need be.

skypair

charles1014 said:

Do not Baptist preachers tell us that Christians are commanded to bring all their tithes to the storehouse (aka Church), and if they are correct then is not tithing an ordinance? According to Baptist preachers the tithing practice that is an act of obedience to God and to be observed by the whole church and therefore tithing is an ordinance.

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Yes, this is something that has been misappropriated from the law to grace. 1) If we are required to, then it is against our will — but "God loves a cheerful giver," right? Only free will gifts are given cheerfully and with love for God. 2) The tithe did not apply to any by farmers or herdsman and the Pharisees. Jesus and His disciples, for instance, didn't tithe. 3) If we come under that law again, then we have fallen from grace, Gal 5:1-4. For not being an ordinance put on us by Jesus or the apostles, it sure has gotten a lot of mileage, hasn't it?

The ideal under grace is that money follows love — the governing law of grace. I never even questioned the tithe until a fell out of love with what my church was doing with my tithes and offerings. But then it began to get to me that I was also forfeiting things that I was saving for — kid's college tuition so the church could buy 15 50" plasma TVs for every hallway in the church. And then I heard of folks living hand-to-mouth as it was — who were to be the recipients (OT-wise anyway) of the tithe — being told that they had to tithe the same as everyone else. Do you know that tithing is one of the biggest turn-offs at any church? My former pastor even said to me when countering the arguments I gave above, "So you think everyone else should pay for your cushy pew in church?" The SBC has really gotten things out of whack on this issue.

Feet washing is an interesting topic, but I believe that speaks more to "Bear ye one another's burdens and so fulfill the Law of Christ." Gal 6:2 If it was needful to wash the feet of another saint then it should be observed, but if it is done more as a show than as a necessity then it is not good to do. Meeting the needs of others is what Christ wanted for His church and that was the basis for all giving. Foot washing could be implemented but great care would need to be observed and that Christian benevolence actively practiced in the church.

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Well, it IS connected to what Jesus did that night — and foot washing symbolized in the OT (the sea of glass outside the tabernacle) washing our selves of the filth of the world before communing with God in the tabernacle. I really, though, wonder if it wasn't that we should be sure that those who would partake were saved. These are the ones who partook unworthily and were sick and some slept. And personally, I think that if we have open communion, we are leavening our own doctrines saying that all doctrines are OK with God.

It's definitely a discussion that needs to be had — as does tithing.

skypair