What is a heretic?

Many church fathers considered reading "The book of Enoch" heresy. Thus many copies of the book were destroyed. Gotta love The Dead Sea Scrolls.

I guess I'm a heretic according to them.

ydouxist said:

Many church fathers considered reading "The book of Enoch" heresy. Thus many copies of the book were destroyed. Gotta love The Dead Sea Scrolls.

I guess I'm a heretic according to them.

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Can you provide a citation, please?

It's interesting that that would be true, since I believe it is quoted in the NT.

It's interesting that that would be true, since I believe it is quoted in the NT.

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Jude quoted Enoch almost verbatem.

Crazy Liz Can you provide a citation, please?

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Origen's knowledge of the Jewish Scriptures convinced him that the orthodox Church was making a fatal mistake by denying the authenticity of certain documents. He openly rebuked the Church for rejecting the Book of Enoch, which contained the history of the early races of mankind and completely destroyed the Jewish chronology. He also called attention to the esoteric doctrines of Moses which the Church had failed to notice. He discovered that Moses, in addition to the teachings of the Covenant, had communicated some very important secrets to the seventy elders, enjoining them to disclose these facts only to the worthy.
Origen's fearless attitude toward the accepted Scriptures of the Christians, as well as his openly-professed interest in Neoplatonism, aroused the wrath of the Patriarch of Alexandria. Origen was banished from the city in the year232.

Origen's father was martyred.
It is said that Origen was so committed to his beliefs in the teachings of Christ that he took the scripture in Matt "cut off your hand, gouge out your eye if it offends you," so literally that he castrated himself.
I would say he was an extremist, but not a heretic.

Yes, Origen was called a heretic (the propriety of anathematizing both Origen and Tertullian being much disputed to this day), but not for merely reading any book.

ahhh . . Origen . .. his was a special case. . . He was never denounced while living you know . .not for another hundred years of so . . .and only because some off-their-rocker heretics decided to take his musings and make them into doctrine . .something he never did . his name got caught up in the whole issue . .

I think if that had never happened, he would have been named a saint . .



Peace in Him!

Raindog said:

The Heretic is a killer gay dance club in Atlanta.

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I thought it was a video game..

didaskalos said:

We are all heretics according to who you talk to.
I cannot count the times I have been called one.
I laugh at them because:
1. We are all quite helpless to change what we believe by our own act of will. You believe what God has revealed to you.
2. The people who go around calling people heretics are usually so eat up with heresy themselves that who really cares what they think? James 3:1 is waiting to catch up with them. These are the best examples of what Jesus referred to "scribes and pharasees" that we have today.
3. These same folks who busy themselves calling you a heretic usually have no idea that there is a difference between "believing" something and "thinking" something. There is a difference between "doctrine" and "faith." Doctrine you can fiddle with, change, rewrite until it sounds corrrect. Faith is not so. Faith is the result of revelation from God, and is really in large part out of your hands.

Just be merciful with your brothers and sisters, keeping in mind that we are all doing the best we can to hold to the truth. You are not perfect no matter how much you think you are. Let the Lord deal with you. It is His business and it is between you and Him.

Regardless of what anyone says, you really have no choice but to follow your heart and what God has shown you. Do not let anyone steal your joy and peace just because they think it is their personal calling to set everyone straight.
You just have to let them do their thing and move on. God will deal with them eventually. I just pray they escape their mindset before it is too late!

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I finally find some wisdom regarding this subject, including doctrine. Let's abandon the dispute over varying Christian doctrines and pick up a living, revelatory, relationship with God.

Whatever that revelatory relationship might be?





Where does a right revelatory relationship end and a wrong one get entered into?

The Mormons claim a revelatory relationship with God . . so do the JW . . .


Where do you draw the line?



Peace in Him!

Here is an easy answer to the question: What is a heretic?

One who believes differently from essential Christian doctrine. That is a heretic.

Victrixa said:

church affiliation or denomination you come from!

What is a heretic?

Waiting for interesting answers!

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I think that a person has to believe something taught by his/her church.. and on rejecting that belief, THEN the person is a heretic.

For example, an African Bushman who has never heard the gospel, is not a heretic when he denies the Word Incarnate. He isn't denying it; he never heard of this.

He is a pagan, not a heretic.

Topic: Heresy

[size=+1]<1,,139,hairesis> [/size]
denotes (a) "a choosing, choice" (from haireomai, "to choose"); then, "that which is chosen," and hence, "an opinion," especially a self-willed opinion, which is substituted for submission to the power of truth, and leads to division and the formation of sects, Gal. 5:20 (marg., "parties"); such erroneous opinions are frequently the outcome of personal preference or the prospect of advantage; see 2 Pet. 2:1, where "destructive" (RV) signifies leading to ruin; some assign even this to (b); in the papyri the prevalent meaning is "choice" (Moulton and Milligan, Vocab.); (b) "a sect;" this secondary meaning, resulting from (a), is the dominating significance in the NT, Acts 5:17; 15:5; 24:5,14; 26:5; 28:22; "heresies" in 1 Cor. 11:19 (see marg.). See SECT

This is from the site:

http://www.menfak.no/bibelprog/vines?word=¯t0001366

peace

To answer the OP: You've a lot of opinions here, and here's mine on the pile...

A heretic is not the average every day person....Those who believe wrong doctrine, who are your average every day Joe/Jane are simply people who believe wrong doctrine. I don't think the ECF really meant the "unwashed peasants" when they were defending the Faith against heresy. They were not pointing the fingers at the masses but at those who KNOWINGLY AND WILLFULLY led others astray. I don't think there is any ECF that would have screamed "heretic" at some poor, uneducated, illiterate member of the Church who got bushwhacked with heresy. They surely would have sought to correct them but that is different entirely from pronouncing "Heretic" on Joe or Jane.

St. Maximos was a champion in fighting against the heresy of the "Monothelites" (it says there is only one nature in Christ, that is Divine). He was beaten, scourged and endured many trials for objecting...they even cut out his tongue...but in the end, the Monothelite Patriarch eventually renounced the heresy and admitted that Maximos was correct! He was condemning not the populace of every day people, but their LEADERS as heretics.

Here's what St. Maximos the Confessor had to say:
"When all the people in Babylon were worshipping the golden idol, the Three Holy Youths did not condemn anyone to perdition. They did not concern themselves with what others were doing, but took care only for themselves, so as not to fall away from true piety. In precisely the same way, Daniel also, when cast into the den, did not condemn any of those who, in fulfilling the law of Darius, did not want to pray to God; but he bore in mind his duty, and desired rather to die than to sin and be tormented by his conscience for transgressing God's Law. God forbid that I, too, should condemn anyone, or say that I alone am being saved. However, I would sooner agree to die than, having apostatized in any way from the right faith, endure the torments of my conscience."

Praise God for true Saints like St. Maximos!