What if criminal investigations were done the way creationists do science?

MoonLancer said:

well my guess is 6000 years or so but if I am wrong and your not a creationist... you have done much to lead me astray. The rocks say 4.55 billion years.

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AV1611VET said:

CLICK HERE​

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I answer you question and you don't give me straight answer? thats so unbecoming of you god sir.

So you believe in a dishonest creator eh? If thats how you get through your day...

So let me just get one point clear, You agree that the rocks of the earth tell us of a very old age, yet you think that this age is a lie. True or False? If other, clarify. I really don't appreciate you liking to your other threads. Most of them are not very clear or begin with poor comparisons, like your car.

Deadbolt said:

God really is a scag isn't he?

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yes

MoonLancer said:

So you believe in a dishonest creator eh?

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No, I don't believe in a dishonest Creator. I believe in a Creator that documented what He did, when He did it, in what order He did it, and how He did it.

God created this universe with age embedded in it, so it could sustain life.

For instance, how old do you think Adam and Eve were the day they were created?

If you say, "One day old," then we have a problem here --- a big one. If a fully-mature man about to be married is only one day old, you have a lot of explaining to do.

This 4.57 billion-year-old earth has only gone around the sun 6100 times.

oops DP

AV1611VET said:

No, I don't believe in a dishonest Creator. I believe in a Creator that documented what He did, when He did it, in what order He did it, and how He did it.

God created this universe with age embedded in it, so it could sustain life.

For instance, how old do you think Adam and Eve were the day they were created?

If you say, "One day old," then we have a problem here --- a big one. If a fully-mature man about to be married is only one day old, you have a lot of explaining to do.

This 4.57 billion-year-old earth has only gone around the sun 6100 times.

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Are you saying that gods limited to creating things that only 'look' old? Not being able to create a world that looks its age is a pritty big downfull if god wants us to marvel at his creation and try to understand it.

Also whats more likely, that the Israelites were wrong because they lacked a science, or that the world looks its age because it formed through natural processes?

Or that god forgot to mention to the Israelites that the world appears old but is not? if he did not forget, why would he not explicitly explain that the world does in fact look old even though its not?

AV1611VET said:

CLICK HERE​

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How about that Occam's Razor?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

MoonLancer said:

Are you saying that gods limited to creating things that only 'look' old?

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Let's try this from another angle:

This earth is 4.57 billion years old.

It doesn't just look 4.57 billion years old --- it is 4.57 billion years old.

Adam didn't just look like he was 30 years old* --- he was 30 years old.

*Or however old he was.

Genre said:

How about that Occam's Razor?

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God doesn't shave.

AV1611VET said:

God doesn't shave.

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Evidently, either do you.


In all seriousness, do you feel that the principle that Occam's Razor represents is logical?

Genre said:

Evidently, either do you.


In all seriousness, do you feel that the principle that Occam's Razor represents is logical?

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Yes --- but if God has to override it --- He will. Just like when He calmed the storm. I would imagine any miracle is a violation of Occam's Razor.

AV1611VET said:

God created this universe with age embedded in it, so it could sustain life.

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Okay, Im willing to ride this out just so I can understand where you're coming from, k?
So God created the universe. So far so good.
Now are you stating that tree rings were (pre Fall) absolutely needed for the sustaining of tree life?
Are you stating that the bones making up Adam's skeleton had embedded calcium deposit rings? It appears that now (post Fall) that this is necessary for growth and life (regarding creatures with internal skeletons). But pre Fall, wasn't everything "perfect"? If Adam was created as the 'perfect' human, why would his skeleton need "embedded" calcium deposit rings? Seriously (and I mean that), for an immediately created being, such deposits would not be needed.
If they weren't needed, then did God "embed age" into Adam's skeleton? And if so, then why?

AV1611VET said:

For instance, how old do you think Adam and Eve were the day they were created?
If you say, "One day old," then we have a problem here --- a big one. If a fully-mature man about to be married is only one day old, you have a lot of explaining to do.

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Well, I would say that 5 seconds after the creation of Adam, Adam was 5 seconds old. 24 hours after the creation of Adam, then Adam was 24 hours old.
One can state that God "gifted" or granted Adam the adult maturity (i.e. Divinely inspired/created "understanding") to get married, but the question of his skeleton still remains.

Heck, robots are now being created that can walk within seconds of being activated. How old are the robots? Well (if you consider 'activation' to be a standard of age), they are seconds old, and yet they walk roughly like a human. How long does it take a standard human to walk? Handfuls of months. Given that the robot can immediately walk, would someone say that the robot was made with "embedded age"? I dont think so. I think that most people would state that the robot was created with the programming ('maturity', 'know how', 'knowledge', 'skill', etc) to walk at the moment of it's activation
No 'embedded age' needed.
Likewise, I see the God of Genesis doing the same thing. No embedded age needed.
(and please dont bring up the actual age of the metals used to create the robot........at this point Im ONLY talking about what the robot can DO, just like you bringing up what Adam was capable of)

So perhaps you could explain this to me. I only ask what you have asked in the past- do not add to my statements, dont ask for definitions, don't add anything to it, and dont complicate it.

After all, I wouldnt want to have to "dumb this down" any more

AV1611VET said:

Yes --- but if God has to override it --- He will. Just like when He calmed the storm. I would imagine any miracle is a violation of Occam's Razor.

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I agree, but then again, I don't believe in miracles.

corvus_corax said:

Now are you stating that tree rings were (pre Fall) absolutely needed for the sustaining of tree life?

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I don't know anything about tree rings, calcium deposits in bones, etc.

If you're saying that the tree next to Adam had 50,000 tree rings in it, and thus God created the universe Omphalos-style, and therefore is a Deceiver; then prove it.

All I can tell you is what the Bible says.

Genre said:

I agree, but then again, I don't believe in miracles.

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I do, though; so why would you care if I believe in Occam's Razor or not?

AV1611VET said:

I do, though; so why would you care if I believe in Occam's Razor or not?

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Hahahaha.

Occam's Razor isn't something to believe in, it's a fact of logic.

Even if "fact of logic" weren't basically a nonsensical phrase, Occam's Razor would not be that... it's merely a reasonable principle which generally makes sense.... but which certainly wouldn't always lead to the truth.

AV1611VET said:

I don't know anything about tree rings, calcium deposits in bones, etc.

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Wait, what?
Well you should, after all you're the one making the claim (EDITED sentence)
Embedded Age, remember?

AV1611VET said:

If you're saying that the tree next to Adam had 50,000 tree rings in it, and thus God created the universe Omphalos-style, and therefore is a Deceiver; then prove it.

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Prove it?!?
Funny, coming from someone who has no objective empirical evidence regarding "kind", unicorns, satyrs, etc.

But more to the point, NO that's not what Im saying. Im talking about your "embedded age" statements.
Did the Tree (or ANY tree) have tree rings? That would be a statement of "embedded age".
Did Adams bones have calcium deposit rings? That would also be a statement of "embedded age"

It's a simple yes or no.

Keep in mind AV, at this point Im not going about this with the "YOU ARE WRONG" attitude. Im trying to understand. I may (and probably will) toss contrary statements, evidence, and belief your way, but this will not be a case of me actually arguing with you (take this opportunity while you can ), but rather a case of me seeking to understand your 'embedded age' statements.

kidoncoathangers said:

Hahahaha.

Occam's Razor isn't something to believe in, it's a fact of logic.

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And Who is "logic personified," Kid? Who, of all persons, would be able to override Occam's Razor, if Occam's Razor got in the way? Does anyone come to mind?

AV1611VET said:

And Who is "logic personified," Kid? Who, of all persons, would be able to override Occam's Razor, if Occam's Razor got in the way? Does anyone come to mind?

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Chuck Norris? He shaves with Occam's Razor.