What if Adam & Eve didnt eat the fruit?

YourChild · Sep 26, 2007

Do you think mankind, during creation, was meant to be mortals or immortals? God said "on the day you eat of this fruit, you surely will die" Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and their spirits died instantly..their flesh, however, died many years later.

so if they didnt eat the fruit, would they have lived forever or eventually die a physical death anyways?

if they were immortals from the beginning and they didnt eat of the fruit, then how would this earth fit the population which would have kept growing until today? would we be on mars if Adam and Eve didnt sin from the beginning?

Armistead · Sep 26, 2007

YourChild said:
Do you think mankind, during creation, was meant to be mortals or immortals? God said "on the day you eat of this fruit, you surely will die" Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and their spirits died instantly..their flesh, however, died many years later.

so if they didnt eat the fruit, would they have lived forever or eventually die a physical death anyways?

if they were immortals from the beginning and they didnt eat of the fruit, then how would this earth fit the population which would have kept growing until today? would we be on mars if Adam and Eve didnt sin from the beginning?

Well, I know the answers you will get, but it was ordained that they would eat the fruit.

I always ask..they were never told they couldn't eat of the tree of life, why didn't they simply eat of that first.
That would assure they would live forever before they ate the fruit that would kill them...I know the answer to this...but I don't think they were that dumb.

SpiritDriven · Sep 26, 2007

Adam was made from the Dust...he was flesh and blood, not immortal.

Flesh and blood lived longer back then by the will of God alone...and for no other reason, just like nothing exists out side of the will of God....

Adam and Eve would have lived as long as it took for Flesh and Blood not to be able to resist Gods intention for them.........Adam and Eve where never immortal to begin with.

God planned the fall...see Romans 9:19

Peace

light_eclipseca · Sep 26, 2007

Possibly another interpretation of "In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die" is that God could have been telling them that though they did have the ability to die, they also had the ability to live forever (because he gave them the conditions under which this was possible). However, in the day that they eat of the fruit, they will die for sure. Not necessarily die on that day; it is just that they were sealing their fate with the fruit on the day that they eat of it.

Mister_Al · Sep 27, 2007

In Romans 5:12 the Apostle Paul said that sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin. So, I have to believe that if there was no sin in the beginning there wouldn't be any death in the world today.

BloodwashedPilgrim · Sep 27, 2007

Mister_Al said:
In Romans 5:12 the Apostle Paul said that sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin. So, I have to believe that if there was no sin in the beginning there wouldn't be any death in the world today.

Agreed.

dayhiker · Sep 27, 2007

If Adam and Eve didn't eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil I believe they would have lived forever. They still might have had to experiance a resurrection for the bodies to be changed such as Jesus did.

As for the population .. there is a whole universe out there the population could ahve moved to. NO, I don't know how unfallen man or God would ahve accomplished that!!!!

dayhiker

PhilosopherD · Sep 27, 2007

YourChild said:
Do you think mankind, during creation, was meant to be mortals or immortals? God said "on the day you eat of this fruit, you surely will die" Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and their spirits died instantly..their flesh, however, died many years later.

so if they didnt eat the fruit, would they have lived forever or eventually die a physical death anyways?

if they were immortals from the beginning and they didnt eat of the fruit, then how would this earth fit the population which would have kept growing until today? would we be on mars if Adam and Eve didnt sin from the beginning?

Adam and Eve were not immortal. Their life was contingent on having access to the tree of life and its fruit.

HuntingMan · Sep 27, 2007

YourChild said:
Do you think mankind, during creation, was meant to be mortals or immortals? God said "on the day you eat of this fruit, you surely will die" Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and their spirits died instantly..their flesh, however, died many years later.

so if they didnt eat the fruit, would they have lived forever or eventually die a physical death anyways?

if they were immortals from the beginning and they didnt eat of the fruit, then how would this earth fit the population which would have kept growing until today? would we be on mars if Adam and Eve didnt sin from the beginning?

Obviously even in eating of the tree they still could have lived forever...

Gen 3:22-24 And Jehovah God said, Behold, the man has become as one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put forth his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever, (23) therefore Jehovah God sent him out from the garden of Eden to till the ground from which he had been taken. (24) And He drove out the man. And He placed cherubs at the east of the garden of Eden, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to guard the way to the tree of life.

Ave Maria · Sep 27, 2007

What if Adam and Eve didn't really exist but were merely story figures meant to portray early humans?

SpiritualAntiseptic · Sep 28, 2007

David's Sweetheart said:
What if Adam and Eve didn't really exist but were merely story figures meant to portray early humans?

Then Christ wasn't necessary. Also that God made us in a sinful state.

Adam and Eve have to have been really people who made a real decision to disobey God in the pursuit of becoming godlike.

Diven · Sep 28, 2007

SpiritualAntiseptic said:
Then Christ wasn't necessary. Also that God made us in a sinful state.

Adam and Eve have to have been really people who made a real decision to disobey God in the pursuit of becoming godlike.

Wouldn't Christ still be necessary for my and your real decisions to disobey God, not to mention every other human to exist.
I think to necessitate the existence of Adam and Eve being real people, takes away some of our personal culpability in sin. As if we feel if they hadn't messed up we wouldn't have messed up either.

If we do take the story of Adam and Eve literally I think it was intended for them to live forever. I think if we went all this time without sinning many off us would be carted up to heaven like Enoch. That said I'm pretty sure God knew by surrendering free will to us we would all at some point take the wrong path.

artybloke · Sep 28, 2007

David's Sweetheart said:
What if Adam and Eve didn't really exist but were merely story figures meant to portray early humans?

Half the fundagelicals would have heart attacks.

It wouldn't make any theological difference though. I'm not responsible for anybody's sins but my own. Thankfully, God's already forgiven them.

Personally, I think if they hadn't eaten the fruit, they'd have not had one of the five a day vegetables/fruit necessary to a fully balanced diet, so they'd probably have got fat and died young.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

YourChild said:
Do you think mankind, during creation, was meant to be mortals or immortals? God said "on the day you eat of this fruit, you surely will die" Adam and Eve ate of the fruit and their spirits died instantly..their flesh, however, died many years later.

so if they didnt eat the fruit, would they have lived forever or eventually die a physical death anyways?

if they were immortals from the beginning and they didnt eat of the fruit, then how would this earth fit the population which would have kept growing until today? would we be on mars if Adam and Eve didnt sin from the beginning?

As finite contingent creatures, Adam and Eve did not have the capacity to be inherently immortal. Their immortality was contingent upon them remaining in fellowship with Him who alone has the capaity to be inherently immortal (i.e. God). Adam and Eve's immortality was maintained by their continued access to the Tree of Life in the midst of the Garden of Eden. The moment they rebelled against God in their hearts (of which the eating of the fruit was only the outward manifestation of that rebellion) they effectively became walking corpses until their later denied access to the Tree of Life would take its effect and physically kill them (they having been made mortal in the first place).

The issue was how long would it be before Man would disagree with God and choose to exist 'autonomously' instead (before they realized that 'autonomy' from Absolute Existence (i.e. YHWH - I AM) is death)?

Graciously, YHWH will restore the Tree of Life in the New Jerusalem and so Man will, once again, be contingently immortal.

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

Armistead said:
Well, I know the answers you will get, but it was ordained that they would eat the fruit.

No, it wasn't ordained at all. Adam and Eve were free to choose whether to rebel against God or not. God's Omniscience has no bearing on Man's capacity to choose

Armistead said:
I always ask..they were never told they couldn't eat of the tree of life, why didn't they simply eat of that first. That would assure they would live forever before they ate the fruit that would kill them...I know the answer to this...but I don't think they were that dumb.

Because access to the Tree of Life had to be continuous in order for their contingent immortality to remain effective. It was ongoing access to the Tree of Life that maintained Adam and Eve's contingent immortality, without which, they were as mortal as the animals.

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

SpiritDriven said:
Adam was made from the Dust...he was flesh and blood, not immortal.

Flesh and blood lived longer back then by the will of God alone...and for no other reason, just like nothing exists out side of the will of God....

Adam and Eve would have lived as long as it took for Flesh and Blood not to be able to resist Gods intention for them.........Adam and Eve where never immortal to begin with.

God planned the fall...see Romans 9:19

Peace

Actually, God created the scenario for the fall (by introducing the prohibition against eating the fruit of the Tree of the Knowledge of God and Evil, without which Adam and Eve had no way of exercising any kind of free moral choice and demonstrating their love for God through their obedience (or lack of love through their disobedience) so the prohibition, far from killing Adam and Eve, actually gave them life (as distinct from mere existence) through the freedom to choose), knowing it would happen but not Himself being responsible for causing it (otherwise God would be the author of sin and that is blasphemy).

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

light_eclipseca said:
Possibly another interpretation of "In the day you eat of it, you shall surely die" is that God could have been telling them that though they did have the ability to die, they also had the ability to live forever (because he gave them the conditions under which this was possible). However, in the day that they eat of the fruit, they will die for sure. Not necessarily die on that day; it is just that they were sealing their fate with the fruit on the day that they eat of it.

The Hebrew literally says 'dying, thou shalt die' meaning the severing of the relationship between Creator and creature would be immediate but it would take further time for that to work its way through into the physical realm so that Adam and Eve would die physically too.

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

Mister_Al said:
In Romans 5:12 the Apostle Paul said that sin came into the world through one man, and death as the result of sin. So, I have to believe that if there was no sin in the beginning there wouldn't be any death in the world today.

Only for Man is death the result of sin. The animals experienced death before Adam and Eve (carnivores were not vegetarian prior to the fall) but for them it was a natural part of their existence since their is no mention of animals having access to the Tree of Life. Death, for humans, is abnormal. We are not supposed to die. We are supposed to live for ever (in everlasting fellowship with God by means of continuous access to the Tree of Life).

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

dayhiker said:
If Adam and Eve didn't eat of the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil I believe they would have lived forever. They still might have had to experiance a resurrection for the bodies to be changed such as Jesus did.

The only reason that anyone lives forever is because they have continuous ongoing access to the Tree of Life (a symbol for God Himself?) As long as they have continuous access to the Tree of Life then they will live for ever, but in order to have access to the Tree of Life one must be not only 'sinless' (i.e. morally 'neutral') but positively righteous (i.e. to have God's righteousness). However, continuous access to the Tree of Life is dependent upon continuous obedience (on the basis of faith (Hab.2:4; Rom.1:16-17; Eph.2:8-10)).

dayhiker said:
As for the population .. there is a whole universe out there the population could ahve moved to. NO, I don't know how unfallen man or God would ahve accomplished that!!!!

If God can bring about the entire Creation ex nihilo (from nothing) then providing accomodation for Man anywhere in His Creation (not to mention getting Man there) would be a walk in the park?!

Simonline.

Simonline · Sep 28, 2007

David's Sweetheart said:
What if Adam and Eve didn't really exist but were merely story figures meant to portray early humans?

The Scriptures would seem to indicate otherwise.

Firstly Adam is meant to be a corollary to the Messiah. If the first Adam was a mythical figure then does that also hold true for the Messiah as the second Adam?

Secondly, Luke (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (2Tim.3:16-17; Heb.4:12-13)) tells us that God created the entire human race from one man (Acts.17:26). Is God, through Luke, attempting to mislead us (Num.23:19)?!

Simonline.

What if Adam & Eve didnt eat the fruit?

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