What does this Scripture Mean to Protestants?

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

John 20

21 Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.

22 And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
John 20

21 Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.

22 And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

??

holdon · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
John 20

21 Again Jesus said, Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.

22 And with that he breathed on them and said, Receive the Holy Spirit.
23 If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.

Vs 21 is Jesus sending His disciples as missionaries into the world.
Vs 22 is Jesus giving the new life in the Spirit.
Vs 23 is Jesus telling them that they can forgive sins or not and that that decision is respected.

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

holdon said:
Vs 21 is Jesus sending His disciples as missionaries into the world.
Vs 22 is Jesus giving the new life in the Spirit.
Vs 23 is Jesus telling them that they can forgive sins or not and that that decision is respected.

What of those who don't receive forgiveness from an apostle?

Are their sins forgiven?

holdon · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
What of those who don't receive forgiveness from an apostle?

Are their sins forgiven?

They can be. Or there would be no forgiveness for anybody, because there are no longer any apostles...

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
What of those who don't receive forgiveness from an apostle?

Are their sins forgiven?

What happened to those Jewish and non-Jewish people concerning sins before the Apostles came?
The Age of the Apostles/OC Law ended almost 2000yr ago according to Matt and Revelation. Reform and believe unto JESUS, our Lord and Savior and YHWH His Father now!!!!

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754). I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the water of the life gratuitously.

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

holdon said:
They can be. Or there would be no forgiveness for anybody, because there are no longer any apostles...

There is apostolic succession.

All Catholic Priests have had hands laid on them by another priest all the way back to the apostles.

Here's the first succession:

Acts 1

15In those days Peter stood up among the believers[c] (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus— 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[d] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'[e] 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." 23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
What happened to those Jewish and non-Jewish people concerning sins before the Apostles came?
The Age of the Apostles/OC Law ended almost 2000yr ago according to Matt and Revelation. Reform and believe unto JESUS, our Lord and Savior and YHWH His Father now!!!!

Matthew 24:3 He is yet sitting on the mount of the Olives, the disciples toward-came to Him according to own, saying, `Tell us, when shall these be? and what the Sign of the Thy ParousiaV <3952>, and of the together-finish/sun-teleiaV <4930> of the Age?'

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754). I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the water of the life gratuitously.

1 Peter 3

18For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

holdon · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
There is apostolic succession.

There is?? I didn't know that.

All Catholic Priests have had hands laid on them by another priest all the way back to the apostles.

Oh really? What kind of hands?

Here's the first succession:

Acts 1

15In those days Peter stood up among the believers[c] (a group numbering about a hundred and twenty) 16and said, "Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled which the Holy Spirit spoke long ago through the mouth of David concerning Judas, who served as guide for those who arrested Jesus 17he was one of our number and shared in this ministry."

20"For," said Peter, "it is written in the book of Psalms,
" 'May his place be deserted;
let there be no one to dwell in it,'[d] and,
" 'May another take his place of leadership.'[e] 21Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22beginning from John's baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection." 23So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. 24Then they prayed, "Lord, you know everyone's heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen 25to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs." 26Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles.

That is not succession: that is replacement. Did Paul, Peter, James, John, etc. ever get replaced that way?

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 6, 2008

holdon said:
They can be. Or there would be no forgiveness for anybody, because there are no longer any apostles...

I do not even consider my Pastor an Apostle but he was chosen to lead us in prayer, hymns, read from the Bible and show us how to live our lives for the Lord.
Btw, do catholic priests lay their hands on every single member of their church to forgive their sins or breath the Holy Spirit on them? Just curious

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).

"True knowledge is [that which consists in] the doctrine of the apostles, and the ancient constitution of the Church throughout all the world, and the distinctive manifestation of the body of Christ according to the successions of the bishops, by which they have handed down that Church which exists in every place, and has come even unto us, being guarded and preserved without any forging of Scriptures, by a very complete system of doctrine, and neither receiving addition nor [suffering] curtailment [in the truths which she believes]; and [it consists in] reading [the word of God] without falsification, and a lawful and diligent exposition in harmony with the Scriptures, both without danger and without blasphemy; and [above all, it consists in] the pre-eminent gift of love, which is more precious than knowledge, more glorious than prophecy, and which excels all the other gifts [of God]." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4:33:8 (A.D. 180).

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 6, 2008

Hey Chestor. You put up a some passages then start up with trying to convert us to Roman catholicism and the Papacy? I don't listen much to the ECFs anyway.

LLOJ [no, no, we won't go]

That Martin Luther? He wasn’t so bad, says Pope

holdon · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
"And thus preaching through countries and cities, they appointed the first-fruits [of their labours], having first proved them by the Spirit, to be bishops and deacons of those who should afterwards believe. Nor was this any new thing, since indeed many ages before it was written concerning bishops and deacons. For thus saith the Scripture a certain place, 'I will appoint their bishops s in righteousness, and their deacons in faith.'... Our apostles also knew, through our Lord Jesus Christ, and there would be strife on account of the office of the episcopate. For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry...For our sin will not be small, if we eject from the episcopate those who have blamelessly and holily fulfilled its duties." Pope Clement, Epistle to Corinthians, 42, 44 (A.D. 98).

So this guy confirms that there were no longer Apostles. So, is there no longer "forgiveness of sins" then? Since you showed that was given to the Apostles. What's your point?

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hey Chestor. You put up a some passages then start up with trying to convert us to Roman catholicism and the Papacy? I don't listen much to the ECFs anyway.

LLOJ [no, no, we won't go]

That Martin Luther? He wasn’t so bad, says Pope

And therefore....?

I'm required to go into all the world and preach the gospel, even to tax collectors and pagans!

Don't stop searching, Jesus is knocking!

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

holdon said:
So this guy confirms that there were no longer Apostles. So, is there no longer "forgiveness of sins" then? Since you showed that was given to the Apostles. What's your point?

Read more carefully!

For this reason, therefore, inasmuch as they had obtained a perfect fore-knowledge of this, they appointed those [ministers] already mentioned, and afterwards gave instructions, that when these should fall asleep, other approved men should succeed them in their ministry

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 6, 2008

chestertonrules said:
And therefore....?

I'm required to go into all the world and preach the gospel, even to tax collectors and pagans!

Don't stop searching, Jesus is knocking!

Then you need to go to the heathen atheist General Apologetics board, not here, as my minister and church preach the Gospel just fine!!!

chestertonrules · Mar 6, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
Then you need to go to the heathen atheist General Apologetics board, not here, as my minister and church preach the Gospel just fine!!!

Don't reject those sent by Jesus!

Matthew 18

17If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

Luke 10
16"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me."

John 20
21Again Jesus said, "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you." 22And with that he breathed on them and said, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven."

1 Timothy 3
15if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

2 Thes 2
15So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.

Matthew 16

17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. 18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. 19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven." 20Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ.

LittleLambofJesus · Mar 6, 2008

Don't reject those sent by Jesus!
Matthew 18

I don't. I tried to preach the Gospel on the OBOB board today and got reported 5 times!!!

Assisi · Mar 6, 2008

LittleLambofJesus said:
I tried to preach the Gospel on the OBOB board today

That's a laughable claim.

What does this Scripture Mean to Protestants?

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