what does it mean to owe?

sarxweh · Oct 25, 2014

"I owe myself"

"I owe this task to my society..."

"I owe it to love to respond to her honestly"

"I owe my grandfather a death"

"I owe this company its bill"

"I owe my grandeur a reward of humble servitude"

"Owe no man"

"By my troth, I care not; man can die but once... we owe God a death"

" i.o.u. "

Etc.

quatona · Oct 25, 2014

sarxweh said:
"I owe myself"

"I owe this task to my society..."

"I owe it to love to respond to her honestly"

"I owe my grandfather a death"

"I owe this company its bill"

"I owe my grandeur a reward of humble servitude"

"Owe no man"

"By my troth, I care not; man can die but once... we owe God a death"

" i.o.u. "

Etc.

The examples sound like they are pointing out some kind of obligation.

jacknife · Oct 26, 2014

sarxweh said:
"I owe myself"

"I owe this task to my society..."

"I owe it to love to respond to her honestly"

"I owe my grandfather a death"

"I owe this company its bill"

"I owe my grandeur a reward of humble servitude"

"Owe no man"

"By my troth, I care not; man can die but once... we owe God a death"

" i.o.u. "

Etc.

obligation.

Paradoxum · Oct 26, 2014

That you are obligated to do or give something.

Gottservant · Oct 27, 2014

It means that which was yours through faith in Jesus Christ, is now something you confuse with what is someone else's through Jesus Christ or the Devil.

The difference being that in one case you will not be expected to repay (at least more than you are able) and in the other case you will be expected to repay more than you are able at least.

It is best not to owe, for when life is over, who repays anything?

PsychoSarah · Oct 27, 2014

Obligation essentially. Although, the strength of said obligation will vary by context, as well as its source. We are obligated to pay taxes by law, for instance, but we aren't obligated by law to help old ladies cross the street. We are obligated by internal morals to help the old ladies.

Tree of Life · Oct 27, 2014

It means that you have something that rightfully belongs to another. Someone or something has a rightful claim on you.

sarxweh · Oct 28, 2014

Gottservant said:
It means that which was yours through faith in Jesus Christ,

is now something you confuse with what is someone else's

So to feel like I owe something is a "confusion of ownership"

In your example , I own "that which was mine through faith in Christ" (the promises, Christ's inheritance, Sonship, etc.?) And yet to feel that I "owe" something means I have become confused about my ownership of "what is mine in Christ" - obviously since Jesus has erased my "debt"?

Am I understanding you?

Gottservant said:
The difference being that in one case you will not be expected to repay (at least more than you are able)

and in the other case you will be expected to repay more than you are able at least.

" in the one case" (being the case where I am in possession of Christ) I don't really owe in any meaningful way.

But "in the other case" (being the case where I am confused about or separated from faith in Christ) "even what I have will be taken from me" in the end.

Gottservant said:
It is best not to owe, for when life is over, who repays anything?

Perhaps "to owe" is itself the opportunity to restore rightful ownership while we yet live; because when we die, we have that opportunity removed.

After life, what it means to owe is a terrible question to answer indeed.

sarxweh · Oct 28, 2014

quatona said:
The examples sound like they are pointing out some kind of obligation.

jacknife said:
obligation.

Paradoxum said:
That you are obligated to do or give something.

PsychoSarah said:
Obligation essentially. Although, the strength of said obligation will vary by context, as well as its source. We are obligated to pay taxes by law, for instance, but we aren't obligated by law to help old ladies cross the street. We are obligated by internal morals to help the old ladies.

Is obligation the essence or a synonym?

I realize we can feel obligated emotionally/psychologically, mechanically/mathematically, philosophically/theologically, etc.

But given the wide spectrum of examples where we might observe obligation occurring on a mass scale, the question is not of etymology or urban usage.

To what reality does obligation owe its own existence?

sarxweh · Oct 28, 2014

Tree of Life said:
1. It means that you have something that rightfully belongs to another.

2. Someone or something has a rightful claim on you.

1. "I owe it the she-bear to return her cub"

2. "I am my lover's and my lover is mine" (sos6:3)

"Owe-nership" provides the context for obligation?

very interesting. If that is true (which I think I agree with that) we now have to understand "ownership".

The etymology does make it interesting here, since (what im reading seems to say) originally "owe" was synonymous with "ahte" (ought).

What puts the ought in owe? (Or took it out as the case seems to be)

PsychoSarah · Oct 28, 2014

sarxweh said:
Is obligation the essence or a synonym?

I realize we can feel obligated emotionally/psychologically, mechanically/mathematically, philosophically/theologically, etc.

But given the wide spectrum of examples where we might observe obligation occurring on a mass scale, the question is not of etymology or urban usage.

To what reality does obligation owe its own existence?

The reality of humans being a social species. The idea of owing someone or something aids in social interactions within groups; if humans weren't a social species, chances are the concept would practically be nonexistent

sarxweh · Oct 28, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
The reality of humans being a social species. The idea of owing someone or something aids in social interactions within groups; if humans weren't a social species, chances are the concept would practically be nonexistent

What about the bowerbird for example?

http://www.dramafever.com/news/these-birds-attract-mates-with-beautiful-love-nests/

Would you say the male "owes" the female a beautiful nest? What does it mean to be a social species if the bird is not a good example of human obligation?

I find the sociological explanation itself a little dissatisfying since on the surface there are too many comparable examples of obligation on this level among animals, who simply don't recognize the concept of obligation with the sophistication of humanity. (No offence Fido)

The economy among penguins is certainly impressive, but it wouldn't be fare to equate it with humanity's moral or philosophical sensibilities.

I bring up animals so strongly because I don't think it means much to say "social species". At the level you mean, we couldn't have "paychecks" or "popcorn" much less a definition of obligation

jayem · Oct 28, 2014

The human concept of obligation comes from a combination of instinct and learning. An example of the instinctive part would be the maternal bond with a child, or other intrafamily bond. Humans (mostly) have an innate drive to feed, protect, and generally care for members of our immediate family. But we also learn that if we borrow a friend's, or acquaintance's possession, we should return it. Or if someone does a good deed for us, we should do the same. When we ponder and analyze these situations with our big brains, we come with the idea of obligation. It derives partly from instinct (especially in the family context.) And also from learning and acculturation in the larger societal setting.

Paradoxum · Oct 28, 2014

sarxweh said:
Is obligation the essence or a synonym?

I'm not sure they are synonymous... I think they are just similar. I think 'owe' has an element of 'paying back' in it that 'obligation' doesn't.

I realize we can feel obligated emotionally/psychologically, mechanically/mathematically, philosophically/theologically, etc.

But given the wide spectrum of examples where we might observe obligation occurring on a mass scale, the question is not of etymology or urban usage.

To what reality does obligation owe its own existence?

I don't understand that question.

sarxweh · Oct 29, 2014

To what does obligation owe its existence?

Paradoxum said:
I don't understand that question.

For instance, isn't "free choice" a predicate of obligation? Or perhaps it is the abstract ability of valuation, or systematic knowledge, or the urge for justice

quatona · Oct 29, 2014

sarxweh said:
To what does obligation owe its existence?

For instance, isn't "free choice" a predicate of obligation? Or perhaps it is the abstract ability of valuation, or systematic knowledge, or the urge for justice

The concept of obligation owes its existence to our need to simplify complex (to a degree that they can´t seem to be handled) matters.

yeshuaslavejeff · Oct 29, 2014

i hit my thumb with a hammer ......... OWE! it hurts!

sarxweh · Oct 29, 2014

yeshuaslavejeff said:
i hit my thumb with a hammer ......... OWE! it hurts!

ha! naught tool stewardship

Paradoxum · Oct 29, 2014

sarxweh said:
To what does obligation owe its existence?

I'd think, nothing. It's a concept, not an object.

For instance, isn't "free choice" a predicate of obligation? Or perhaps it is the abstract ability of valuation, or systematic knowledge, or the urge for justice

Do you mean 'is free choice a requirement for obligation'? I don't think free will is necessarily required for moral obligation.

I don't know if that answers the question.

sarxweh · Oct 29, 2014

Paradoxum said:
I'd think, nothing. It's a concept, not an object.

Do you mean 'is free choice a requirement for obligation'? I don't think free will is necessarily required for moral obligation.

I don't know if that answers the question.

Well i actually got the idea for free choice from your banner "liberty, equality, solidarity"

Do you see any of those preceding or relating to the concept of obligation?

what does it mean to owe?

sarxweh

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"God"? What do you mean??

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Liberty, Equality, Solidarity!

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