what do you think????

Godismyhero · Sep 25, 2007

I have been thinking alot about how Christians feel about divorce. I have read posts that say to even stay if there is emotional abuse, that that isnt grounds for divorce. I feel confused, and feel that if can all be interpreted the way we want it to, meaning, everyone can see the same scripture differently. The Bible says God hates divorce, but if there is adultry or abandonment that is Biblical grounds for divorce, that is pretty black and white. BUT the Bible ALSO says that to look upon a woman with lust is committing adultry, so one could say that you have Biblical grounds for divorce if your spouse has looked upon a woman/man with lust. It also says that one sin is just as bad as the other, a lie is just as much a sin as murder, we all have lied, so why is divorce so much worse a sin to Christians when one sin is just as bad as another. I am not condoming divorce, but why is divorce so condemned when lying in Gods eyes or any other sin is just as bad??????? Why should one live there whole life miserable because maybe for instance someone made a vow when they were 20 years old and didnt really know what or who they were saying I DO to. Sometimes I think God gives us signals we ignore, signals that tells you "no dont marry that person, things we ignore and do it OUR Way and not Gods way, so it wasnt Gods will, and then are we to stay miserable forever?? That was a forinstance, I didnt get married when I was 20, just an example

Just thought I would throw this out there and see what you all think.

jelvenko · Sep 25, 2007

I personally think that if it's a case of abuse, then there is no reason you can't get a divorce. But if it's just because you don't like your spouse anymore, that's not enough of a reason.

BereanTodd · Sep 25, 2007

Abuse (physical or mental) is not biblical grounds for divorce, only adultery is. That does not mean a woman should just "stay and take it". There absolutely needs to be both separation and intervention/counselling, the man obviously needs to get right with God, and I would advise any initial meetings/contact between the two parties to be supervised, preferably by a trained biblical counsellor.

BUT ... it is not grounds for divorce. God hates divorce, and the only Biblical grounds for it is either infidelity, or if an unbelieving spouse chooses to leave, and SERIOUS effort at reconcilliation is made and rejected.

Godismyhero · Sep 25, 2007

BereanTodd said:
Abuse (physical or mental) is not biblical grounds for divorce, only adultery is. That does not mean a woman should just "stay and take it". There absolutely needs to be both separation and intervention/counselling, the man obviously needs to get right with God, and I would advise any initial meetings/contact between the two parties to be supervised, preferably by a trained biblical counsellor.

BUT ... it is not grounds for divorce. God hates divorce, and the only Biblical grounds for it is either infidelity, or if an unbelieving spouse chooses to leave, and SERIOUS effort at reconcilliation is made and rejected.

but the Bible clearly says that adultry is grounds for divorce, it doesnt say infidelity. And it also says to look at a woman with lust is adultry, those are Gods words.

I am not saying that to look at a woman with lust is grounds for divorce, i am just saying, it can be read differently and people will interpret the same scripture differently. It can be confusing.

It just seems so inflexable in this one area, but people will tell a lie knowing it is sin, we are all human and not perfect, why is perfection expected in marriage and judged so harshly but not in other areas of life?

question33 · Sep 25, 2007

I spent a whole lot of time contemplating this subject this year. I also believe it is adultery only.

I have taken my fair share of mental/verbal abuse. I don't believe that it is necessary for one to just take it. A person needs to protect themselves. And I don't see anything wrong with separation if necessary to protect oneself.

In my experience, the person dealing out the abuse is will be ashamed of their behavior if it is not kept secret. It doesn't mean that they will change it though.

BereanTodd · Sep 25, 2007

Godismyhero said:
but the Bible clearly says that adultry is grounds for divorce, it doesnt say infidelity. And it also says to look at a woman with lust is adultry, those are Gods words.

adultery/infidelity are the same thing, or at least I was intending it to be the same. I did mean adultery though - sex between one married partner and someone not his partner.

Rembrandtfan · Sep 25, 2007

No one should stay in any environment where they are being abused, physically or emotionally. Both have the same devastating consequences. We have to protect ourselves and our children. I'm not necessarily saying to get a divorce, except, perhaps, when all efforts like separation and counseling have failed. I do believe that divorce devastates children, but so does watching a parent get abused or being abused themselves. I don't believe in getting a divorce just because you don't feel happy or don't have loving feelings toward your spouse. Emotions are too fleeting, and we can't rely on them in the long-term.

Godismyhero · Sep 25, 2007

BereanTodd said:
adultery/infidelity are the same thing, or at least I was intending it to be the same. I did mean adultery though - sex between one married partner and someone not his partner.

I know what you meant what I am saying though is the scripture can be used as a loop hole to some, cause it also says to look upon a woman in lust is adultery........so since it is worded exactly that way in scripture, it really cant be argued that one is getting a divorce due to adultery because of that scripture, even if there wasnt "infidelity", just lust, do you understand what I mean? How can it be argued, it is right there in the Bible??? there isnt a clause....... P.S. at the bottom LOL

seige · Sep 25, 2007

Matthew 19

Divorce

1When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. 2Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.
3Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?"

4"Haven't you read," he replied, "that at the beginning the Creator 'made them male and female,'[a] 5and said, 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate."

7"Why then," they asked, "did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?"

8Jesus replied, "Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery."

10The disciples said to him, "If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry."

11Jesus replied, "Not everyone can accept this word, but only those to whom it has been given. 12For some are eunuchs because they were born that way; others were made that way by men; and others have renounced marriage[c]because of the kingdom of heaven. The one who can accept this should accept it."

Malachi 2:16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [f] with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.

The allowance for divorce was because people had hard hearts. It was a concession by God not a right. Too many on here think that they deserve a certain type of treatment and I can whole-heartedly say- NO YOU DON'T. If we got what we deserved we'd all be dead already for the sins of our youth! "I deserve to be happy" where does it say that in the Bible? There is more scripture saying you will be persecuted! God hates divorce. If you love someone you don't do things that they hate. If you "married the wrong person" you still made a covenant with God and are required to keep that covenant. God can and will bless you even though you have sinned and gone astray!

If you are in an abusive relationship I would say you need to do what you have to in order to be safe but that doesn't involve divorce. It involves counselling, getting some other people involved, etc. I would be careful with that "emotional abuse" stuff too. "My husband isn't pleasant with me all the time. He's grumpy when he gets home and I feel emotionally abused..." I think a bunch of that is crap. Even if your husband blatantly points a finger at you and calls you demeaning names you don't have to believe him. It can hurt your heart but in those times you need to turn to your heavenly Father and trust His opinions about you, not your husband's.

BrBob · Sep 25, 2007

OK. I ran smack into this problem when counseling a divorcee once and this is what I got from it.

Abuse in a marriage is a breaking of the marriage covenant. It breaks the covenant because when one spouse starts abusing the other he is not preferring her/him over himself. He/she is loving himself more than the spouse. That is adulterous.

The Bible is not a rule book. It provides guidance and Jesus Himself pardoned divorce (reluctantly) based on adultery. I think you are correct in your interpretation. Adultery is defined not simply as a physical act of sex, but there are deeper meanings to it.

Pray, ask Holy Spirit for more definition. He gives it when it is needed.

God Bless
Bob
Spearfish, SD

Meshavrischika · Sep 25, 2007

But isn't everything about the hardness of our hearts? If our hearts were not hard, we would not seek our own ways to begin with.

I agree with the original poster that there is much made about divorce when not much is made on these boards about lying, etc.

One sin does not outweigh the other.

That being said, in a perfect world, where both spouses would submit to the will of God, we would all be happily married... but only you can make the decision for yourself... and cannot make this decision for your spouse.

Those of you who have read my threads know I am having marital problems. My husband has not cheated and has not abused me... and yet it still is wholly and horribly painful to live life this way (the way our relationship is now). I finally have surrendered it all to Christ and he has lifted the pain of my burden off me. I don't necessarily believe that his resolution will surely involve the recovery of my marriage though. Time will tell. If my husband submits and we are both made new in this relationship through Christ, we will be happy together again. If he does not, we will probably go our seperate ways.

I do not believe that if we do go our seperate ways, Christ would judge what I have done as sin. I have surrendered this thing to Him and he will do the very best in his power for me, but he will also not force my husband to change because that is not who He is.

The sin in the relationship comes WAY before the divorce. And yes, some of my actions have been sinful in this relationship, and for that I accept responsibility (though am thankfully clean because of the cleansing blood of Christ).

Ari5 · Sep 25, 2007

I can say why God doesn't want us to divorce & why others think it is so wrong, this might be coming from people who have experienced the damage divorce can do.

My mother left when I was 4, remarried another man for 26 years & in june divorced him,. now is all ready to marry guy #3. When you divorce the first time, it makes it easier to leave again if things don't work out.

Divorce hurts, not just the 2 people, but all the fmaily too. I am from the first marriage, I have 2 brothers from the 2nd, & we all having to deal with her & the situation yet again.

I married at age 19 & have been married 16 years. Yes, there was a time where we had a difficult time & I was thinking of leaving, but knew God did not want this for me. I stayed & worked hard at my marriage, I just didn't expect it to be great, I had to work on it. We are happy & our relationship is better, not when I think back I am so grateful that God convicted me to stay , not only for me but for my kids & the other people I have witnessed too, so they can see what God can do if you just trust him.

I would say you don't have to settle for a crappy marriage, make it better, ARI

dayknee · Sep 25, 2007

Ari5 said:
I can say why God doesn't want us to divorce & why others think it is so wrong, this might be coming from people who have experienced the damage divorce can do.

My mother left when I was 4, remarried another man for 26 years & in june divorced him,. now is all ready to marry guy #3. When you divorce the first time, it makes it easier to leave again if things don't work out.

Divorce hurts, not just the 2 people, but all the fmaily too. I am from the first marriage, I have 2 brothers from the 2nd, & we all having to deal with her & the situation yet again.

I married at age 19 & have been married 16 years. Yes, there was a time where we had a difficult time & I was thinking of leaving, but knew God did not want this for me. I stayed & worked hard at my marriage, I just didn't expect it to be great, I had to work on it. We are happy & our relationship is better, not when I think back I am so grateful that God convicted me to stay , not only for me but for my kids & the other people I have witnessed too, so they can see what God can do if you just trust him.

I would say you don't have to settle for a crappy marriage, make it better, ARI

It is not that I don't agree with what is being spoken here, I do. But you have to understand that ONE person can't make a crappy marriage better.
I am in the situation right now (long story) and I can NOT make it better when the other party has not and will not try. I can (and have) only looked to God to make it better. I also will NOT wait around for that time to come IF it comes.
It is so sad that things have to come to this when only one person ever worked on a marriage. I can't make it better! Not alone. And so much time has passed that frankly I don't try. I focus on my children and taking care of them and loving them and making sure they know the Lord. Everything else is a joke to me. Marriage has become sort of a joke to me. I know I will get alot of flack for that statement, but that's how I feel.

Ari5 · Sep 25, 2007

dayknee said:
It is not that I don't agree with what is being spoken here, I do. But you have to understand that ONE person can't make a crappy marriage better.
I am in the situation right now (long story) and I can NOT make it better when the other party has not and will not try. I can (and have) only looked to God to make it better. I also will NOT wait around for that time to come IF it comes.
It is so sad that things have to come to this when only one person ever worked on a marriage. I can't make it better! Not alone. And so much time has passed that frankly I don't try. I focus on my children and taking care of them and loving them and making sure they know the Lord. Everything else is a joke to me. Marriage has become sort of a joke to me. I know I will get alot of flack for that statement, but that's how I feel.

Yes, I agree with you, there are sometimes when you can not do anything. I'm sorry you are in that situation. Have you tried counseling? If not for both of you, maybe do it for you. We really learned allot from ours & it has helped us so much.

Yes, it does take 2 people. I was lucky my husband hung in there & was determined to make things work. Blessings, Ari

Godismyhero · Sep 26, 2007

dayknee said:
It is not that I don't agree with what is being spoken here, I do. But you have to understand that ONE person can't make a crappy marriage better.
I am in the situation right now (long story) and I can NOT make it better when the other party has not and will not try. I can (and have) only looked to God to make it better. I also will NOT wait around for that time to come IF it comes.
It is so sad that things have to come to this when only one person ever worked on a marriage. I can't make it better! Not alone. And so much time has passed that frankly I don't try. I focus on my children and taking care of them and loving them and making sure they know the Lord. Everything else is a joke to me. Marriage has become sort of a joke to me. I know I will get alot of flack for that statement, but that's how I feel.

So true, you cant be the only one trying. I get tired, my husband says he is a Christian but the only time he focuses on God is to manipulate me to do what he wants me to do. Like getting me to come back to him, he played the I found God and I fell for it, I was decieved and manipulated. He is a recovering meth addict and the master manipulator. I was naive, never around that kind of person. I feel for your pain, I too have times when I feel marriage is a joke, not that I dont want to be married, but I dont want this marriage situation, I pray my husbands heart changes, our Pastor told him his heart needs to change, he has a meanness in him, alot of anger, bitterness, unforgiveness from his childhood and has made him hard and mean.

I also feel it is easier for one to say stay at all cost cause that is what God wants when they have not experienced the pain of being in an abusive relationship. When your children cling to your leg when their dad raises his voice and cry daddy please stop yelling and they are trembling. And I dont feel God wants that kind of life for my children, my husband is sinning against God with how he treats his family and I dont think my children should suffer all there childhoods for that. It has been 9 years and he still hasnt changed, hasnt grown at all in the Lord. he goes to Church "if" I go, when I went to ca. to visit family for 4 weeks, he didnt go to Church one time. He is a big fake, I have lost repect for him. He lies, manipulates and I know now that it wasnt Gods will for me to re-marry him, I thought I was doing what God wanted me to do, but now I reliaze I did what I wanted to do not what God was telling me. Cause God knew he wasnt being honest. We were 3000 miles apart before we got back together, he went to Church before I got here, he called me every night to do Bible studies on the phone, all he talked about was the Lord, said God delivered him from even smoking, I later found out that was a lie too, he lied about that until I remarried him, then everything stopped, no more Bible studies, still smoking, just all a bunch of lies to get me back, I feel angry and decieved. Sorry didnt mean to vent so much !!! LOL was just going to respond to your post!

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