What do you think about Pentecostals?

allen.hudson said:

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tounges," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutically enterprit scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

Im not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.

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I've been a pentecostal at some point in my life and it is not something I would ever consider again. By the time I left, i was emotionally drained and dissapointed in many ways. I am still trying to figure out why that happened. The Christ preached there sounds veeeeeeeeeeery different from the one I've come to know and love since coming back to being Anglican.

I went to a Pentecostal church a good number of years. (3 different ones) didn't agree with all they did or said, but I thought they were good overall. I have noticed too, while on this board, that some Pentecostal churches vary and all may not all be exactly the the same. As with all churches we may not agree with everything. I just want a church that believes in Jesus and salvation, baptism, and believe God's Word is true. Each church may interpret things differently, but the most important thing is to go where you feel God wants you to go. Where I live there are only 2 active churches, a Baptist Church and an Anglican Church.

I agree Saved.

I was brought up Sally Army and since then have been part of 4 (shifted a fair bit) 'Pentecostal' churches. I use the term to describe a type of worship or church service.

One was an AOG fellowship. I sort of agree with you. But I think it depended on the hierarchy at the time. There seemed to be a few 'fads' for a better term that came and went. That in itself showed the volatile nature of what existed.

All of the pentecostal churches were quite different.
And I have been to some awful ones. They honestly sounded like some sort of 'PR' organisation just in case the Lord needed assistance. Haha- please laugh over that.

My summary,
1- Most know how to worship so well.
2 - Most have good eldership teams keeping them under control.
3- A few, especially one man bands, seem to be susceptible for false teaching and varing away from Jesus's way of doing things.
4- I did find one that was irreverend and never listened to the Lord or humbly prayed. It almost seemed they let God know they were boss .. again laugh.

I enjoy the worship that the whole movement re-introduced into Christendom.

In this country (NZ) I could see that there was almost a split between pentecostal on one side and traditional on the other. It is my humble opinion that the traditional (those set in place from centuries of doing things that way) found it quite intimidating and reacted pushing away brethren including many within their own churches.....

We now have plenty of traditional 'pentecostal' type of fellowships especially in terms of praise and worship.

Praise Jesus the King.

Good post Steve. Laughed a few times, but only when asked to . After reading your post a few times (I am slow) I got this idea, the problem with churches is that there are humans in them. Glad to hear you have some good churches around to go to, that is a blessing!

The Bluegrass band (Garland Square pickers) that I played with used to provide "Special Music" occasionally in the Presby church in Garland, TX.

Their Organist at the time was a gal that could have been Lily Tomlin's twin sister. And every time she would play Organ or piano - the Holy Spirit ministering in her music would bring me to tears with His presence/anointing.

"Speaking in tongues isn't a main focus now as it seemed when I attended as a child,"

Agreed - it's probably been well over a year now since the last instance of "Tongues" in our AoG church. In the Dallas area, in most cases you could be in a Baptist Church that forgot to change the sign out front.

allen.hudson said:

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tounges," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutically enterprit scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

Im not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.

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OK, you just want to state that Pentecostals do not study the bible properly, interpret the bible wrongly and out of context and contrary to sound principles of hermeneutics, which you know is true because you have gone to bible college for a year and a half. And you will not debate any issue, because you just want mature conversation. And you want it understood that you did not start this thread to flame Pentecostals.

Hmmm... have I ever seen threads like this before???? Oh yeah, and when debate was held, it was always completely based on straw man arguments. And oh yeah, the threads were never intended to inflame Pentecostals.

Well, my website is Pentecostal. I do not want to debate if you do not... but perhaps, you will do me the favor of looking at the site and just pointing out to me how it is not proper interpretation, contrary to sound hermeneutics, and taking things out of context. The positions on the site are basic theology and completely consistent with the Azusa Street Revival, with the exception of upholding the house church as the main model of church structure in the bible. (But gee... I'll bet these positions may be different than what your bible college said is what Pentecostals believe.)

Here is the link.
The Church of the Love of Christ - Home, House, Non-Institutional, Emerging, Emergent

If Pentecostals are so horrible in bible interpretation, you should have no problem at all in demonstrating how my methods of interpretation are so distorted, and these positions do represent the mainline of Pentecostalism. I promise I will not try to debate you, unless you resort to straw man arguments.

I like Pentecostals. I was raised baptist, and every pentecostal I have met(never gone to a service) have been great. I find their view of salvation a little skewed(I'm a free-willer), but I don't believe one can lose salvation, although they can lose their ability to participate in the Millennial Kingdom. Speaking in tongues is Biblical(even without an interpreter), and so I'm fine with that part, although just because somebody is saved doesn't mean they can speak in tongues. It takes time. Plus, the "tongue" may be something other than language. It could be musical or painting. All in all, I think Pentecostals are a fun, vibrant, and okay relatives.

...

Sounds like a pastor who's on the way to self-destruction - letting the pressures of the job get to him. I've run into one or two of those over the last 50 years.

Bob Carabbio said:

Sounds like a pastor who's on the way to self-destruction - letting the pressures of the job get to him. I've run into one or two of those over the last 50 years.

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I agree, and not all Pentcostal ministers would say that, not the ones I have known anyways.

Hey I was raised in the AoG. I loved their life in worship. A problem exist for me. Well several. One is the involvement of the involvement of some pastors in the Massons. Please notice I didn't with Massons. Another problem I have is the emotional involvement with everything that comes along. I need a solid foundation. And very important to me is the ability to be involved in doctinal issues affecting discipleship and spiritual maturity. This seems to be a problem everywhere. Agree with us without question on everything or hit the road jack.

If all I'm going to get is lets party, I just as well go to the local comedy club or pub.

I have a need for fellowship as well. If I can only get the hi, how are you with the expected answer I'm fine and you, church has no value. I can get that at wally world.

One church I went to the wants people to bring their Bibles to church. But why? If you're going to read from the newest version out this week I can't follow the reading and must deal with what is read and said or pay no attention to what is happening really invalidating the reason to go to church. I can stay home and watch the TV service and avoid all the crapy social issues. Don't have to dress up either and can have coffee in my lazy boy recliner which is much more comfortable than a pew.

So give em what the want and don't offend anyone. I'm sorry but the Gospel is offensive. I didn't say antagonistic. It could be though if used in a manipulative manner which I've seen. So please come to our church, sit down, shut up, put money in the bag/plate and get off the property. No thanks.

woman2woman said:

Here are quotes from the last AOG pastor I heard preach:

"If you're not a percentage tither (10%) we can't afford to have you here". (That's bull)

"If you're not bringing someone new to church every week we're better off without you".
(more bull)

At a function another pastor proclaimed, "...so I called up some people and got them to do it, I mean why should I do everything?"
(I say if you're collecting a salary do your job, don't expect the people that fill your coffers to do it for you).

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I think that pastor should be fired. That church is paying him too much. Are the elders a pack of whimps or are they in the pastor's pocket? This shows the danger of a church ruled by one person. Who monitors the guy at the top of the pyramid?

Paul had no time for anyone in the church who though he was somebody and who desired to have the pre-eminence, and neither should we.

woman2woman said:

Here are quotes from the last AOG pastor I heard preach:

"If you're not a percentage tither (10%) we can't afford to have you here". (That's bull)

"If you're not bringing someone new to church every week we're better off without you".
(more bull)

At a function another pastor proclaimed, "...so I called up some people and got them to do it, I mean why should I do everything?"
(I say if you're collecting a salary do your job, don't expect the people that fill your coffers to do it for you).

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I would take him at his word: if the pastor doesn't want me at his church, there are plenty of other churches that do want me; churches with better pastors. Which churches and what better pastors? Any church and pastor that have the basics of the Gospel right would be be better than one like that, and those can be found in most denominations.

allen.hudson said:

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tongues," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutic ally interpret scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

I'm not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.

Click to expand...

As in ANY church, there is always the possibility of getting it wrong. I would be interested to know what it was you discovered in Bible College, that caused you to NOT want to go back to your home church?

As far as what I have learned in my 40+ years as a Pentecostal believer, I have seen mistakes and errors in every church I've attended, which by the way were NOT just Pentecostal congregations, but my relationship with Jesus and my study of His Word, keeps me more inclined to that doctrine, than any other.

Originally Posted by allen.hudson

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tongues," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutic ally interpret scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

I'm not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.
​

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stan1953 said:

As in ANY church, there is always the possibility of getting it wrong. I would be interested to know what it was you discovered in Bible College, that caused you to NOT want to go back to your home church?

As far as what I have learned in my 40+ years as a Pentecostal believer, I have seen mistakes and errors in every church I've attended, which by the way were NOT just Pentecostal congregations, but my relationship with Jesus and my study of His Word, keeps me more inclined to that doctrine, than any other.

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I was once an associate pastor in an AoG congregation and held "Christian Worker" papers on my way to licensing back in the '80s. The denomination had several major problems back then, as a whole. That said, prior to my seeking to be a servant and minister in the AoG, it was an AoG Pastor that led me to Jesus and His salvation. As Brother Stan has said above, ALL denominations, non-denominations, and fellowships get some of "IT" wrong. AND, they get a lot of it right.

Paul said on at least 3 occassions that the Body of Christ on earth is made up of many members, each with our own gifts from above, each with our own purpose in the Body, each of us reach different folks for Christ, as we lift Him up in our lives so that He can draw all mankind unto Himself. That is not a real paraphrase, but it is the gist of what Paul wrote.

Face it, Billy Graham and his Baptists are very good at getting people to Jesus' cross. A LOT of people know Jesus as LORD and Savior today because of Brother Graham's preaching. Many of those are now in other faith organizations and congregations around the world. They may not have stayed Baptist and I thing Brother Graham is okay with that, as I think GOD, also is okay with that.

Personally, my opinion is that the AoG got a bit wrapped up in money. When I dropped out of pastoring in the AoG, for me to come back into the denomination as a pastor again, I would have had to pay tithes to the AoG for all of the time I was not pastoring and ministering in order to "buy" my papers back again and be recognized as a minister, even though I had been tithing to the congregation of Free Methodists that I was worshipping with all those years. I don't know if that is still the case, but it was back in the '80s and '90s. Personally, I disagree with mega-monstrosity church buildings. The AoG seems to like them. I think that money can be better used to minister to those in need. But, I will not fault the many AoG folks, who I have NO doubts about in their Christian walk with Jesus. They are needed to minister within the AoG.

More later. I have to go. But, there are born-again Christians in all denominations, high church and low church. Each has a ministry to reach those that others are ill-equiped to reach. BTW, the AoG is not the only organization that I think puts too much emphasis on money.......

Be blessed,
Lee52

Okay, back for a few more minutes. It is my opinion, based upon my personal experiences over the course of my 60 years of life, (okay 40 years of aware life), wherever the Spirit of GOD is moving and working, Satan is not far behind to disrupt and cast doubt and aspersions on the workings of the Holy Spirit. ALL Christian congregations should have unsaved people in the worship services: ALL. The key is to have Christian education classes that bring people beyond mere Salvation in Christ, not that Salvation is actually "merely salvation". There must be Christian growth personally, corporately and spiritually within the Body of Christ. Satan attacks new Christians with a vengance. Satan attacks mediocre, "satisfied" Christians when they are not expecting it, which is all the time, that is why they are satisfied and mediocre, luke warm water christians. New Christians in the Pentecostal traditions are very susceptible to Satan's faux gifts, his imitations of the real Gifts of the Holy Spirit. I have learned to use 1 Corinthians 13 to temper my experiences with my Pentecostal brothers and sisters. If they do not have genuine, unconditional love from GOD, then I am leary of their "spiritual gifts". Remember, Satan is spirit and so are his minions.

I am not judging here, merely being a fruit inspector. Even so, I would submit myself to that same measure to anyone. When I report to a new duty position, I look for another Christian in that work site. I ask them to let me know if they ever fail to see Jesus in me during my work day.

So, do not judge all Pentecostals or even the AoG by your bad experiences. Rather be aware of those and accept fellowship of family members based upon inspection of fruit that accompanies all Christians.

Be blessed,
Lee52

I have attended AOG churches for the last 25 years. After reading some of the comments to this blog, it occurred to me that AOG churches are not created equal nor are they all one flavor. They differ depending on the views of the individual pastor. I have attended some that were very conservative and almost boring. I am not sure why people so desire to pigeon whole denominations and judge the whole bunch based on personal experience at 1, 2 or even 20.

Someone made a statement that I agree with that no one denomination has it all right. This is true. I have attended Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Church of God in Christ, Assembly of God, Seventh Day Adventist, CME, Southern Baptist, Catholic, and many other denominations that I just can't think of at the moment. They differed in doctrine on many issues. Some sprinkled, some dunked, some baptized in the name of the Trinity, some in the name of Jesus only. Some used grape juice in communion every Sunday and some used wine on the 1st Sunday only. Some worshiped very quietly and some were very loudly. Some loved the organ and traditional music, some tossed the organ out and rocked out using keyboards, guitars, and drums. Some thought you could be saved one day and lost the next. Some allowed tongues in church but required interpretation, some were a free for all. Some didn't allow tongues at all. Some allowed jumping, running and shouting, some would have the ushers eject you for such actions. In every one of these churches I found some brothers and sisters, fellow members of the only church that matters, the Church, universal.
If anyone wants to make a federal case out of any of these denominational differences, more power to you. I don't. As a matter of fact, I think denominationalism causes more divisions in the body of Christ than just about anything the devil could ever come up with.
What matter is that they teach that Jesus is God the Son, who died on the cross to shed His precious blood to pay the sin debt and rose again bodily on the 3rd day and is now sitting at the right hand of the Father making intercession for those who received Him by grace through faith; that when Jesus departed He sent the Holy Spirit and when anyone believes in Jesus as Savior and Lord, regardless of what denominational church they attend, they are born again and indwelled by the Spirit of God. They are brought from death to life. After a person receives this new life, the Holy Spirit is the only One who can open their spiritual eyes, teach, empower, equip and direct them into the truth of the things of the Spirit and guide them into the will of God for their lives. Let the Holy Spirit direct you to the denominational or non-denominational congregation where you can grow spiritual and learn to use your gifts for the edification of the body of Christ and expansion of the kingdom of God.

As far as I'm concerned, Pentecostals and all these other divers "flavors" of Christianity are of no consequence or benefit if a person doesn't experience the new birth. It's a matter of personal choice (and the Spirit's leading) which denomination you choose. The best advice I can give anyone is not to be so concerned with denominations and take personal responsibility for their spiritual growth by studying the bible for themselves and seeking discernment from the only Teacher that always gets it right, the Spirit of Truth. He will reveal truth to believers and fill them up so they can be useful in the kingdom of God. He will also expose error so that believers will not be so easily led astray. This is my prayer for all:

""For this reason I bow my knees to the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, from whom the whole family in heaven and earth is name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with might through His Spirit in the inner man, that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height - to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do exceedingly abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us, to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations forever, and ever. Amen" Ephesians 3:14-21

In Him

Since I last posted in this thread, I've left AoG and joined an Episcopal church. There was nothing specifically wrong with my AoG church, but I was becoming extremely uncomfortable with the politics and culture of conservative evangelicalism, of which AoG is undeniably a part. I abhor dominionism and theonomy, and I think the Santorum campaign was the final straw. It finally got to where I was just not willing to continue being associated with it anymore, and went looking for a good fit among the mainline denominations. Well, I've always leaned Anglican, since C.S. Lewis was the main writer responsible for my being a Christian at all, so Episcopalianism was natural. I still remain Pentecostal in some of my theology, but that's ok, they don't mind at all. I'm very happy with my new church.

allen.hudson said:

I was raised in an Assembly Of God Church, I attended the same church for about 15 years. I never realized, until about 2 years ago, that many of the things that I was raised to believe were wrong and out of context. Mainly what they teach about "speaking in tounges," and the way they teach salvation.

I started Bible College a year and a half ago, now that I am learning how to study God's word properly and hermeneutically enterprit scripture I can safely say that I will never be going back to another AOG church.

Im not trying to inflame or anger anyone that is AOG or Pentecostal, I just personally believe that they are a little off on their teachings.

What are your views on AOG churches? Do you believe they are accurate in what they teach? This isn't going to be a debate or anything, I just want to have a mature conversation with people.

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I know an AoG Pastor. He's a nice man, and the people I know who are Pentecostal have a "zeal, but not according to knowledge." The fact of the matter is, as a Lutheran, I confess from the Smalcald Articles: Therefore we ought and must constantly maintain this point, that God does not wish to deal with us otherwise than through the spoken Word and the Sacraments.

The entire Pentecostal teaching is dangerous to me because it's seeking to find God outside of his Word and Sacrament. Rather than know what God clearly says in his Word, the Pentecostal seeks to receive the Spirit so that he can better know God's will. Also the teaching of Pentecostalism implies a two-tier system of Christians. Those who are saved, and those who are truly Spirit-filled. There's also a heavy emphasis on works performed by the believer (emptying, tarrying, etc.) to the point where I can't even tell if Pentecostals believe in Justification by Faith Alone (which they claim).

Pentecostalism is nothing new though. Even in the Middle Ages through today the pope claims he receives special revelation from God over and above the Word. Methodists receive special knowledge and fuller understanding through prayer and fasting...over and above the Word. As far as the exegesis, you'll notice that in Acts, the Holy Spirit is always given in connection and with Baptism(!). God gives his full salvation and gift through Holy Baptism, Holy water Baptism. Not with Baptism in the Spirit (not found in the NT) or in Confirmation (again, not in Acts or the NT).

I was raised Assembly of Gof but now I am a Calvinistic Holiness Pentecostal. There is very little difference between my beliefs and the beliefs of my denomination. I hold perseverance to be more of a mystery although I lean towards the Perseverance of the Saints. Other than stressing the sovereignty of God a little bit more, there's really no difference.

I do happen to believe in theistic evolution but as a Pentecostal preacher, I feel that helps me to preach Genesis, not as a science textbook, but from a deeply spiritual standpoint. So in some ways it actually makes me more Pentecostal because I am more free to spiritualize the text.