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I HAVE HEARD IT SAID THAT IF THEY TALK IN TONGUES, PUSH PEOPLE OVER BACKWARD AND CLAIM THEY ARE CURING THE THE HANDICAPPED. I DO NOT ACCEPT THAT! PAUL SAID THEY ARE NOT TO FORBID SPEAKING IN TONGUES IN HIS DAY, BUT THE WAY THEY RUN THE ISLES AND HOOP AND HOLLAR AND BLABBER AT THE MOUTH, PAUL SAID THEY ARE NOT TO DO THAT, BUT THEY STILL DO IT. THEN THE PUSHING OVER BACKWARD, WELL! ANY VERSE YOU READ IN THE BIBLE IMPLIES THAT GOING OVER BACKWARD IS A SIGN OF WICKEDNESS,(EVEN THOSE WHO CAME TO TAKE JESUS FELL OVER BACKWARD, AND MANY DIED IN THE OT FOR GOING OVER BACKWARD) IT IS A PLOT OF SATAN IMITATING CHRIST, BUT NOT LETING ANYONE KNOW THE TRUTH OF IT. AND IT IS EVIL SPIRITS IN THE LAST DAYS THAT GO AROUND FAKING MIRACLES(BOOK OF REVELATIONS), SATAN DOES HAVE A POWER TO MAKE YOU SICK AND THEN REMOVE HIS BURDEN FROM YOU AND MAKE YOU THINK YOU ARE WELL AGAIN. I'D RATHER BE CATHOLIC THAN PENTECOSTAL, BUT I ALSO DO NOT FOLLOW ALL OF CATHOLIC TEACHING. THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE ONLY HAS ALL THE ANSWERS. PRAY TO JEHOVAH TO LEAD YOU.
Pentecostalism is only as good as the Holy Spirit makes it. If the Holy Spirit is not there then it can be just as bad as the worst church out there. But if the Holy Spirit is there then it can be the best church there.
...The Holy Spirit makes the church...
...Without the Holy Spirit we are powerless...
Greetings;
Amen, I am not denominational; I believe and teach what the bible teaches; I believe it to be the Word of God; and when I read some of the comments; and am sad; it reminds me of the Ten Virigins parable.;
The kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins; who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom; five of them were wise; and five were foolish; Those who were foolish took their lamps; but took no oil with them; but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps; while the bridegroom was delayed; they all slumbered and slept; at midnight a cry was heard: Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him! Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps; And the foolish said to the wise; Give us some of your oil; for our lamps are going out; But the wise answered; saying; lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell; and buy for yourselves; while they went to buy; the bridegroom came; and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut; Afterward the other virgins came also; saying; Lord, Lord, open to us! But he answered and said, Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you. Parsonsmom.
I meet Catholic women who seem to know Marian apparition stories better than they know Catholic doctrine. I'm just the opposite. I know the doctrine and too little about the apparitions. But I believe the Church-approved ones are genuine. The Catholic Church doesn't order anyone to believe that the Blessed Virgin appeared to anyone. Our salvation doesn't depend on whether we think she did that. Just as I'd love to see those women pay doctrine more attention, I hope and pray charismatics won't learn to need the emotional highs they seem to feel at their services. God forbid that anyone would prefer the gifts to the giver and the feelings to the divinely revealed truths. I don't know whether the Holy Ghost causes what happens at charismatic services. Maybe He does. But I still need to avoid them.
Say a pastor from some denomination preaches during his sermon at a miracle service. From my perspective, God probably wouldn't do any physical miracles there when they would seem to support the heresies.
It also reminds me of the similarities with Noah and the ark. Amen.
Thanks. I think I do have a relationship with Our Lord. But I try hard to avoid highly emotional religious events because my feelings already are too strong, especially while I write this post.The Personal relationship is where the answer is. Your pope is a born again believer; and there are many Catholic churches have praise and warship in their church's.
Thanks. I think I do have a relationship with Our Lord. But I try hard to avoid highly emotional religious events because my feelings already are too strong, especially while I write this post.
Yes, I have accepted Christ as my Lord and Savior. I feel very grateful to Him, too, because I can hardly tell you how effectively He uses my emotionally painful times to sanctify me. Heaven knows, He has infinitely more work to do to change me into what He wants me to be. Life is hard a times. But compared to the crosses other people carry, mine are feather-light. Christ knows exactly what He's doing with, for, and through me. So I wouldn't dare try to question is plan for my life. I'm not in charge, He is.You will find as you grow in Him; your feelings and emotions will comply with your spirit. Have you accepted Jesus as your personal Savior? if you have not; your missing a great experience.
Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him. Jesus answered and said to him, Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
When you are born again; you are entered into a covenant with God.
By the way, I've never felt comfortable at any charismatic service. I prefer something much quieter and much more contemplative.
Livelier, it is. But that isn't the only consideration. While I have enjoyed Pentecostal services and feel the sincerity of the people, it always seems more like a religious concert or special program than a worship service.I was the same way for a long time, but I felt like God may have been urging me to step outside my comfort zone and I decided to give a Pentecostal church a try last week. Glad I did--very friendly congregation, and while there weren't people spasming on the floor or sprinting down the aisle, it was noticeably livelier than the services I've attended.
Friendly congregations are a joy to be with, my friend. I admire my charismatic friends for their joyful, loving warmth. But too often, I've gone to vernacular Masses where the high point seemed to have been the sign of peace. Something meant to take only a moment got too, too long. People wandered around the church to talk with, shake hands with, and even hug or kiss everyone they could find. Meanwhile, in my opinion, Our Blessed Eucharistic Lord stayed on the altar, where most people ignored Him. I'm happy to be friendly with other people. But I save socializing for the vestibule, the luncheon after Mass, and conversations outdoors. Vernacular Masses offend me because they pay the congregation too much attention, attention Our Lord deserves.I was the same way for a long time, but I felt like God may have been urging me to step outside my comfort zone and I decided to give a Pentecostal church a try last week. Glad I did--very friendly congregation, and while there weren't people spasming on the floor or sprinting down the aisle, it was noticeably livelier than the services I've attended.
Looking forward to tomorrow.
Livelier, it is. But that isn't the only consideration. While I have enjoyed Pentecostal services and feel the sincerity of the people, it always seems more like a religious concert or special program than a worship service.
Excellent point, Albion. I got the impression at a Mass where an expert guitarist played. I think Catholic-church designers did something right when they put the organ loft behind and far above the congregation. Musicians usually don't feel the urge to "do a show" when the congregation faces the altar.Livelier, it is. But that isn't the only consideration. While I have enjoyed Pentecostal services and feel the sincerity of the people, it always seems more like a religious concert or special program than a worship service.
I was the same way for a long time, but I felt like God may have been urging me to step outside my comfort zone and I decided to give a Pentecostal church a try last week. Glad I did--very friendly congregation, and while there weren't people spasming on the floor or sprinting down the aisle, it was noticeably livelier than the services I've attended.
Looking forward to tomorrow.
I was the same way for a long time, but I felt like God may have been urging me to step outside my comfort zone and I decided to give a Pentecostal church a try last week. Glad I did--very friendly congregation, and while there weren't people spasming on the floor or sprinting down the aisle, it was noticeably livelier than the services I've attended.
Looking forward to tomorrow.
Friendly congregations are a joy to be with, my friend. I admire my charismatic friends for their joyful, loving warmth. But too often, I've gone to vernacular Masses where the high point seemed to have been the sign of peace. Something meant to take only a moment got too, too long. People wandered around the church to talk with, shake hands with, and even hug or kiss everyone they could find. Meanwhile, in my opinion, Our Blessed Eucharistic Lord stayed on the altar, where most people ignored Him. I'm happy to be friendly with other people. But I save socializing for the vestibule, the luncheon after Mass, and conversations outdoors. Vernacular Masses offend me because they pay the congregation too much attention, attention Our Lord deserves.
Yeah, a music-or-socializing-only thing is a seperate event.
Sunday service should always include instruction from the Word, no matter what church.
Yes, I have a high-church mindset. Before Vatican II, every Catholic did. I don't expect non-Catholics to worship the way Roman Rite Catholics do at the Traditional Latin Mass. What non-Catholics do at their services is up to them. I've been to many of those services, too.Regarding the latter: We Charismatics and Pentecostals are generally non-liturgical and regard ourselves as "Spirit-led," which in this case includes the possibility that from time to time the Spirit may lead us to have an "all music" service. At other times it may be no music and extended teaching from the Bible; or littler or no music or teaching, but mostly ministry by congregants by the gifts of the Spirit. In the large majority of cases there will be an arranged order that will include all those components, but never rigidly fixed that way.
Regarding the former: I think this reflects a liturgical, sacramental, "high church" mindset. It is what YOU consider "normal," but is not necessarily THE norm. Charismatics and Pentecostals are generally non-liturgical and non-sacramental (so of course we don't view the Lord as resting in the plate even in those services which include Communion). While socializing (or "fellowship") is not the focal point, we regard the Church as "the body" of Christ, and so interacting with each other is not an adjunct, it is a legitimate part of "worship" itself.
Yes, I have a high-church mindset. Before Vatican II, every Catholic did. I don't expect non-Catholics to worship the way Roman Rite Catholics do at the Traditional Latin Mass. What non-Catholics do at their services is up to them. I've been to many of those services, too.
But think of it this way. For a Catholic, Our Blessed Lord is still sacramentally, transubstantially present in the tabernacle, even when there's nobody else there in the church. So we believe He's already in the building before Holy Mass begins. People run around the church to fellowship, they distract other people who try to pray silently. With all the fellowshipping, it's as though most people there ignore Our Lord.
Years ago, when I still attended the New Mass, a folk group began to sin the Our Father after the priest started to say it. They should have said it, too. Sometimes I wonder what performers would do if Christ walked into their church. Would they say, "Please be quiet now, sir. We're performing?"
From my perspective is man-centered, partly because the priest faces the congregation. During the Traditional Latin Mass everyone faces the same direction to face Christ. The priest isn't being rude with his back to the congregation.
But I can hardly help thinking about rudeness when I remember something my favorite priest told me before he died. In Roman Rite Catholic churches, the tabernacle's usual place of honor has usually been the middle of the high altar, where the faithful could see it the moment the walked into the church. At the church I used to go to, he needed to say the English Mass at a portable altar on wheels with the tabernacle behind him and on the high altar. During the English Mass there, rubrics required him to lean down to kiss the altar. He refused to do that, though, because he hated to show Our Lord his, the priest's, backside. If I bended over to show another parishioner mine, I probably would offend him.
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