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Yeah - but that is not the whole story. He is VERY MUCH in favor of the gentile church as well. He sees a completely obedient gentile body that is almost completly devoid of anything Torah and a Jewish body that is very Torah observant. He has a serious problem with people like me who are gentiles in the messianic movement but apparently not with Jews in tradional churches. (hence his co-founding the Helsinki Consultation with a Jewish catholic priest)
We use "shul" and Moshe (pronounced moe SHAY) which are Yiddish and Hebrew respectively. Synagogue is one of those words that migrated from Greek into Hebrew.
Actually "Moshe" did the same thing from ancient Egyptian where it meant "drawn out of..." For example Ra Moshe (aka Ramses) means drawn out of the sun.
This is because Jews in gentile churches can still understand their Jewish identity.He has a serious problem with people like me who are gentiles in the messianic movement but apparently not with Jews in tradional churches. (hence his co-founding the Helsinki Consultation with a Jewish catholic priest)
It seems to me that Messianic people generally come from and more comparable in their tendencies to Protestantism. Messianics probably don't like to hear that, and many would want to be considered a part of the fold of Judaism. And ideally, that would be the case, but it is not.
Protestantism, Mormonism and Messianic Judaism are basically in competition for the same people
MJ occasionally gets influx from Traditional Judaism, and maybe vice versa, but as a general rule MJ is a gentile religion, a gentile reformation of Christianity. I am not saying that is good or that it is bad, it is just an observation.
Truth.
Human beings?
Truth.
I think, sadly, that you are right about all of this.It seems to me that Messianic people generally come from and more comparable in their tendencies to Protestantism. Messianics probably don't like to hear that, and many would want to be considered a part of the fold of Judaism. And ideally, that would be the case, but it is not.
Protestantism, Mormonism and Messianic Judaism are basically in competition for the same people (which is not to say that MJ is a dangerous competition to the other two.)
MJ occasionally gets influx from Traditional Judaism, and maybe vice versa, but as a general rule MJ is a gentile religion, a gentile reformation of Christianity. I am not saying that is good or that it is bad, it is just an observation.
Your own pope, eh? Well okay. So what sect do you think MOST messianics see themselves as being most a part of?I don't consider myself a member of any sect, as that would mean they determine what I believe.
Your own pope, eh? Well okay. So what sect do you think MOST messianics see themselves as being most a part of?
You don't understand the question. The question was an either or. Is Messianic Judaism more part of Judaism or Christianity?Hopefully, believers. From experience though, that is giving too much credit. Most will probably pick MJ, as that is the most popular designation.
You don't understand the question. The question was an either or. Is Messianic Judaism more part of Judaism or Christianity?
You don't understand the question. The question was an either or. Is Messianic Judaism more part of Judaism or Christianity?
I posted earlier that most messianics would likely consider themselves more a sect of Judaism. I personally, however, think that they are a sect of Protestantism. Their beginnings, middle, and end are Baptist, and many of them are Pentecostal.And if Christian, what type of Christianity is it historically developed from or related to ?
I posted earlier that most messianics would likely consider themselves more a sect of Judaism. I personally, however, think that they are a sect of Protestantism. Their beginnings, middle, and end are Baptist, and many of them are Pentecostal.
That's bad news.As MJ becomes more Protestant it becomes more American, and vice versa, and I fear it will end up becoming an alienating American movement, when it should be an embracing, universal movement.
And I am seeing more and more parallels between MJ and Mormonism too. Especially as MJ becomes more and more rooted in America and American concerns.
On another forum I once visited the link was ineluctable. I just kept hearing about 1800's Republicanism, American laws, the Constitution, how the native Americans are probably Israelite, etc etc etc and all these alienating things.
As MJ becomes more Protestant it becomes more American, and vice versa, and I fear it will end up becoming an alienating American movement, when it should be an embracing, universal movement.
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