what are the two great powerful lights in Gen 1:16?

mercy1061 · Jan 20, 2016

AbbaLove said:
Of the twelve American astronauts that have walked on the moon ... Buzz, Neil, Pete, Alan, Edgar, Alan, James, David, John, Charles, Eugene and Harrison not one of them ever mentioned anything about an intense light of the north and south pole. Actually Mercy seems to be contradicting himself referring to the north and south pole as "two powerful lights" when he knows all too well that the light coming from the north and south poles of the earth are reflected sunlight.

If you are referring to a 24 hour day it very well would've could've been the AFTERGLOW following the first 3 days after the BIG BANG. In due time the sun was brighter than the afterglow that we know as daylight approximately a 12 hours a day.

As the scriptures state, the two powerful lights are in the firmament of heaven not outer space. Is it possible to have light or day without the sun or moon? The purpose of these two powerful lights is to divide day from night. Day and night are singular not plural. Have you heard of aurora light?

AbbaLove · Jan 20, 2016

mercy1061 said:
As the scriptures state, the two powerful lights are in the firmament of heaven not outer space. Is it possible to have light or day without the sun or moon? The purpose of these two powerful lights is to divide day from night. Day and night are singular not plural. Have you heard of aurora light?

Being a little evasive, hey? So, what happened to your "two powerful lights" of the north and south poles?

mercy1061 · Jan 20, 2016

AbbaLove said:
Being a little evasive, hey? So, what happened to your "two powerful lights" of the north and south poles?

I asked this question a while ago: Why didn't genesis 1 mention "months" ; after all the new moon regulates a new month.
I guess it is like the altar, at one time before the temple, the stone altar could be built in the wilderness without a specified location, then the altar was moved inside the temple for a centralized worship place. After the temple was destroyed, you may worship on any holy mountain. The true worshippers, worship in spirit and truth.
The north and south poles are distributers of light, thus the sun and stars give natural light to the earth. Yeshua transfigured into a bright light; was his light artificial light, natural light, spiritual light, celestial light or invisible light? Light or fire could have been housed inside the sun to give light to the earth, the stone altars many times had burnt offerings. The altar had a consuming fire, much like the characteristics of the sun. That great consuming fire has a centralized location in outer space.

Laureate · Jan 23, 2016

AbbaLove said:
According to the Word it isn't necessary to overthink the obvious when the SUN and MOON become the means for keeping God's calendar. Without the light of the MOON how would the Israelites know the beginning of the next month? Common sense supported with scripture doesn't necessiate overthinking.

Genesis 1:14
“Let there be lights in the heaven to divide the day from the night, And let them be for SIGNS, and for SEASONS …“

Joel 2:10
“The earth shall quake, the heavens shall tremble. The SUN and the MOON shall be darkened…”

Joel 2:30-31
“And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood and fire and pillars of smoke. The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and terrible day of the Lord come.”

Mark 13:24
“But in those days after the tribulation, the SUN shall be darkened and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT

Acts 2:20-21
"The SUN shall be turned into darkness and the MOON into blood BEFORE the great and notable Day of the Lord come. And then, whoever calls on the name of Adonai will be saved.”
____________________

So, we can agree that the "LIGHTS" also refers to the stars. However, those that hunt at night (e.g. racoons) will tell you that the MOON (not the stars) affects animal behavior. Plus it's easier to spot a racoon hiding in a tree under a full moon.

"Hunters have noted that activity amongst all animals is greater when the moon is full and that this one form of hunting by moon phase -- hunting during periods of full moon -- can yield excellent results. In other words, if you're aware of the phases of the moon, you're in a better position to anticipatre the peak of animal activity. Fishermen will also tell you that the phases of the moon (not the stars) have an affect on fishing activity even during daylght hours." http://www.moonconnection.com/moon_phase_fishing.phtml

The purpose of the lights are how we are able to distinguish which lights are actually being referred to, i.e., these lights are responsible for the Cycles of time, the sun is a (relatively) fixed object to earth, it just sits there shining, it is us who Rotate on our Axis of northern and southern lights that also propel us on our orbit around the sun these lights create the phenomena of a 24 hour day, and sends us on our orbit of 364+ days a year;

Laureate · Jan 23, 2016

mercy1061 said:
Do you understand the new moon festival? The moon is celebrated, when the moon reflects no light, dark moon = new month. The moon is not a source of light!

That response could have only been sown by the Chief Shepherd!

Laureate · Jan 23, 2016

AbbaLove said:
Have you been listening to Nova and National Geographic's evolutionary theology and other attempts to debunk the Bible ?

So do you too doubt the Word of the LORD

Mark 13:24
CJB ~ "In those days, after that trouble, the sun will grow dark, the MOON will STOP SHINNING"
ESV ~ “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"
KJV ~ "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the MOON shall not give her LIGHT"
NIV ~ “But in those days, following that distress,“‘the sun will be darkened, and the MOON will not give its LIGHT"

Can you find even one translation that supports National Geographics theology? By the way the brain trust at NG doesn't believe the Bible is an authorative primary source of absolute knowledge.

Are you familiar with Scouts using mirrors to send light messages

Just the same, Her light is not her own, She is only reflecting light off of the Sun, the eight phases of the moon makes that evident to us, not any agency of man, even so, Earth reflects far more light than the moon.

Laureate · Jan 23, 2016

dysert said:
I can't believe this has taken 71 replies so far. One of the rules of exegesis is to understand what the text meant to the original audience. To the ancients, it appeared that the sun and moon were two great lights. (They still appear that way today.) We know that the moon does not generate its own light but is a reflector of the sun. Nevertheless, it serves the purpose of a light, as it did when it was created. That's not to say that these great lights *always* are "on". The new moon seems to pose a problem for some, but then there is the total solar eclipse which would pose a similar problem for those who insist the lights must *always* be on.

As for the bodies being in the same level as the birds, that's silly. The Bible mentions three "heavens". The first is where the birds are; the second is outer space; the third is the spiritual world. The sun and moon are clearly in the second heaven.

I honestly don't see why anyone would have a problem denoting the sun and moon as the lights created on Day Four.

The light of Day is created on day one, or Elohym is a liar, the lights created on day four are responsible for Cycling;

ובהו וחשך lit. a vacuum of darkness is given the name לילה lit. (a twist of) Night (light), describing the patern which the galaxy stars appear to turn, these are the lessor light to govern the Night, Elohym gave the outer darkness a name, but it was not Heaven.

Laureate · Jan 23, 2016

mercy1061 said:
This LIGHT that existed the first three days was divorced from darkness. What fellowship does LIGHT have with darkness? When the LIGHT switch is turned on, the darkness in the room flees. Yet this LIGHT that was good, the first LIGHT, the LIGHT from day one, was married then separated from darkness. This LIGHT was viewed as being good, prior to its divorce from darkness. I agree the two powerful lights are in the firmament of heaven as you have enLIGHTened me to this fact, possibly the north and south pole . I voted with you in the poll, you are not alone (all one).

"In the Beginning was the Word....and the Word is the Light....And the light shined in the darkness, and the darkness perceived it not...."

Pretty much an emphasis of בהו the vacuum aspect of the חשך darkness

mercy1061 · Jan 24, 2016

Laureate said:
The light of Day is created on day one, or Elohym is a liar, the lights created on day four are responsible for Cycling;

ובהו וחשך lit. a vacuum of darkness is given the name לילה lit. (a twist of) Night (light), describing the patern which the galaxy stars appear to turn, these are the lessor light to govern the Night, Elohym gave the outer darkness a name, but it was not Heaven.

Can you please explain your words? I am learning from you. I do not mind being taught something I never understood until now.

mercy1061 · Jan 24, 2016

Laureate said:
Just the same, Her light is not her own, She is only reflecting light off of the Sun, the eight phases of the moon makes that evident to us, not any agency of man, even so, Earth reflects far more light than the moon.

Amen

mercy1061 · Jan 24, 2016

Laureate said:
That response could have only been sown by the Chief Shepherd!

Thank you so much, for telling me about the north and south poles.

mercy1061 · Jan 24, 2016

Laureate said:
"In the Beginning was the Word....and the Word is the Light....And the light shined in the darkness, and the darkness perceived it not...."

Pretty much an emphasis of בהו the vacuum aspect of the חשך darkness

I agree.

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

There is a שמש Sun (אור light) lurking in the חשך darkness mentioned on day one, חש שך 'silently entwined' one might say;

For a localized equidistant (11) את 'letter' (skip) cycle spells out the word שמש 'Sun'
in the words וחשך אלהים וחשך

Note how both ש (shins) of שמש are rooted in the word חשך 'Darkness', where in one direction it reads שמשן ית רהו pronouncing, Our Sun was Formed..., and the same reversed reads והר תין שמש And the effervescing Sun was conceived.

The word ירח lit. Moon is also present on a 5 letter cyclic skip (the ח in ירח is rooted in the word אחד '...(day) one...' and reads ואיר ארי אט בה נוח קהוו קלי ירח מירתיי ל ימא

ואיר ארי אט And the luminary made a soft gentle light move
בה נוח קהוו קלי ירח upon the habitation of his parched ally the moon

מי ירתי י ל ים א whom I ejected out of the sea

(repeat, and glean from קלי ירח)
קלי ירח מירתיי ל ים א
the brightness of the moon is a reflection of the properties of the (אור light called) Day

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

mercy1061 said:
These lights are located in the firmament of heaven, yes, the firmament was called heaven. Even the birds can fly in the open firmament of heaven, so these lights are not in outer space. These great and powerful lights are in the sky. The firmament or sky is the special holy place, that marks the days, seasons, years, and signs. So it was not necessary in the ancient world to use a telescope that look beyond these two great and powerful lights into dark out space. He also made the stars, ALSO means in addition to, so the stars or the sun which is a star was made also with these two great and powerful lights. We must look into the firmament or sky to celebrate the new moon, Abraham was told to look into heaven to count the stars, which APPEARS to be located in the firmament of heaven.

"And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if you be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall your seed be." [Genesis 15:5]

When one looks through a telescope and counts the stars, they are not counting the stars that exist in the telescope, likewise in this case, to look toward (a translucent) heaven, is not just looking into heaven, but looking through, and beyond heaven unto the vacuum of darkness which Elohym called night.

One of the things that throw many off are the translations that inadvertently depict the sun, moon, and stars IN heaven;

above, among, by, from, in, on, through, to(ward), upon, with, etc.

Whether the prefix is a ל a מ a ב a ה an אל an על עמ or את etc., a translator must take extreme precaution to rely on existing scripture, and not interpretative belief when selecting an appropriate rendering;

I am aware of the concept that outer darkness is popularly construed as heaven, yet, other than a translator erroneously selecting "...in heaven..." instead of "...toward heaven..., ...through heaven..." or "...above heaven..."

The scriptures do not support the notion of the Sun, Moon, or Stars existing within Heaven, but in בהו וחשך a vacuum of darkness which Elohym called לילה (lelah) lit. (the spiral of) Night;

There are many passages which the translators wrestle with, but bless their hearts, I believe they gave it their best shot under their circumstances, and within their dispensations;

The forefathers were instructed to pass down the writtings unto their children, (no mention of translations, or interpretative beliefs);

Elohym said, he did not give the forefathers a heart to understand the words of the covenant;

But that there would one day be a generation that would be able to understand the words of the book;

Thus the Scribes of the Kingdom bring forth out of their storehouse things both new, and old, and those who have are given more;

Otherwise, to what extent is the word made of none effect if we ignore the validity of these passages;

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

A translation must conform to the harmony of the existing clarity of the scriptures;

Pardon my Gleaninings, for as a Stranger within these gates I am permited by Law to do so.

בְּרֵאשִׁית בָּרָא אֱלֹהִים אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ:
בְּרֵאשׁ In the beginning
ית it was
בָּרָא created by
אֱלֹהִים Elohym
אל הים from the sea
אֵת specifically (the essence of)
הַשָּׁמַיִם the atmosphere
וְאֵת and specifically (the essence of)
הָאָרֶץ the earth

The earth has one Shmym (atmosphere), however, there are many שמיםatmospheric levels, (altitudes where various gases, properties are known to be more prevalent than in others), i.e.,

The part of שמים (Sh'meyim) 'Heaven' where all אדמי 'earthlings' live and move, and have their being is called the Troposphere, it is also where all weather takes place, extending upward approximately seven miles out;

From 7 miles high to approximately 31 miles high is the Stratosphere, from 31-50 is the Mesosphere, from 50-440 miles is the Thermosphere, from 440-6,200 miles is the Exosphere;

From 8,100 miles to 37,300 miles are the Van Allen (radiation) belts within the Magnetosphere, the Companion of the moon is not the sun, but Earth it'self;

The ionesphere spans (overlapping the top of) the mesosphere, the entire thermosphere, and (overlapping the bottom of) the exosphere;

Between the mesosphere and the stratosphere is the ozone layer, and between the stratosphere and the troposphere is the tropopause;

So forth and so on, Yes there are many levels of the Created Heaven, the Only Heaven Elohym ever spoke of, So?

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

וְהָאָרֶץ הָיְתָה תֹהוּ וָבֹהוּ וְחֹשֶׁךְ עַל פְּנֵי תְהוֹם וְרוּחַ אֱלֹהִים מְרַחֶפֶת עַל פְּנֵי הַמָּיִם: [Genesis 1:2 Tanakh]
וְהָא And behold
רצהי the particles of
הָאָרֶץ the earth
הָיְ were
תָה scrambled
תֹהוּ without any particular form
וָבֹהו and a vacuum
וְחֹשֶׁךְ of darkness
עַל פְּנֵיsur-faced
תְהוֹםa surge of massing water
וְרוּחַ and the spirit (breath) of
אֱלֹהִים the Sovereign Author
מְרַחֶפֶת hatched
עַל פְּנֵי the sur-face of
הַמָּיִםthe waters

וַיֹּאמֶר אֱלֹהִים יְהִי אוֹר וַיְהִי אוֹר: 3
וַיֹּאמֶר as he spoke
אֱל El(ohym)
הים made a roaring sound
יְהִי אוֹר which manifested a light
וַיְהִי אוֹר and it was radiant

וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת הָאוֹר כִּי טוֹב וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ: [Genesis 1:1-4 Tanakh]

וַיַּרְא and as it shot out
אל ה ים from the collected body of water
אֱלֹהִים ירא Elohym was launched
את around
הָאוֹר the light
כ thus
יטו he spun
בו around it
י ב whereby he
דל suspended
אלה ים the collected body of water
בֵּין הָאוֹרbetween the light
וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְand between the darkness

וַיַּרְא אֱלֹהִים אֶת הָאוֹר כִּי טוֹב וַיַּבְדֵּל אֱלֹהִים בֵּין הָאוֹר וּבֵין הַחֹשֶׁךְ: [repeat, and glean Genesis 1:4 Tanakh]

וירא אל הים Thus from the sea shot out
את האור the essence of the light
וירא אלהים האור and Elohym saw the light
כי טוב and it was beautiful
ויבד לא but it was not alone
ירא אל ו for after it shot out
הי מאת came a hundred fold
הא ורכ which also spit out
יטוב beautifully
ויבד yet they were remote
לא ל הים nowhere near the surging waters
בין האור that partitioned the light
ובין החשך and partitioned the darkness
ויבד לא אלהים yet Elohym was not alone
ויבד לא nor were they the only ones
ל הי מ to come forth from
ל הים the properties of the sea
ביו האור between the light,
וב ינה חשך and the effervescense in the dark.

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

Another gleaned look at the end of this same passage reveals a dual discription to spell and pronounce the Hebrew word לבינה (lebeynah) 'the moon was made', even a orthographical absorption of it's parts could easily pronounce 'li(m)beynah' from להימבינה

ל הי מ בינה = a ל came before beynah
ל הים בינה = uttering (or roaring) ל בינה
(thus, the Moon) או רו ב ינה ל החשך
also appeared to effervesce in the darkness;

Thus this particular light was placed in outer darkness, in a vacuum of space, where the darkness percieves it not;

Laureate · Jan 24, 2016

Check out the illusion of the Sun which appears to rise and fall, but in actuality stands relatively still (to earth), on the other hand, Earth which is spinning (and orbiting the sun), yet to us it appears that we are stationary.

mercy1061 · Jan 24, 2016

Laureate said:
The purpose of the lights are how we are able to distinguish which lights are actually being referred to, i.e., these lights are responsible for the Cycles of time, the sun is a (relatively) fixed object to earth, it just sits there shining, it is us who Rotate on our Axis of northern and southern lights that also propel us on our orbit around the sun these lights create the phenomena of a 24 hour day, and sends us on our orbit of 364+ days a year;

Excellent

Laureate · Feb 5, 2016

mercy1061 said:
Can you please explain your words? I am learning from you. I do not mind being taught something I never understood until now.

Well, Elohym said, יהי אור 'there shall be light', ויהי אור 'and there was light', and Elohym called the אור 'Light' יום (yowm) 'Day' as in day light, and that was Day one, then came Day two, yet He did not say, 'let there belight' (again) to achieve it, there was a rotation, however this rotation is without the regulation instituted on day four.

Do not let the native tongue intimidate you, get an interlineer, and a couple lexicons, let the Spirit guide you precept upon precept, it only requires a sincere heart that can afford the time.

Much of the biblical Hebrew is written (as it was spoken) in a pidgin tongue, and the only way to learn it is to walk in their dialect, unfortunately this is not taught any where (that I am aware of), but fortunately we do have approximately two thousand years of historical dialog to study, a luxury that the biblical characters didn't have, and there is so much that is not being taught, or properly emphasized in the formal venues.

what are the two great powerful lights in Gen 1:16?

two great lights

sun and moon

sun and stars

sun and something unknown

all stars possibly a sun from another galaxy

I don't know

the north and south poles

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