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What about the differences between chimps and humans?

Humble_Disciple

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I wouldn't describe the differences between humans and chimps as particularly vast.

Do you believe that natural selection acting on random mutation (or some other natural mechanism) is responsible for human intelligence, language, morality, mathematical ability, etc. because of the evidence itself or because of your own biases?
 
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Humble_Disciple

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How does common design explain things like phylogenetic patterns for things like retroviral insertions, etc?


I don't believe one can prove either common descent or common design. They are interpretations of the evidence based on our respective presuppositions.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Exactly. No one in science thinks design is a thing.

Why do we need to assume that science has a monopoly on all knowledge and therefore, the creation of man must have a scientific explanation?
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Because descent has been demonstrated, design is just an unjustified assertion.

Has it been actually demonstrated that natural selection acting on random mutation, or some other natural mechanism, was responsible for the vast differences between chimps and humans?



Just saying "evolution did it" doesn't actually explain how it happened.
 
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Humble_Disciple

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White southern ‘good Christian folk,’ used the Bible and misused Darwin’s theory to justify slavery and white privilege. But you already knew this.

That was by going against what the Bible actually teaches.

Acts 17:26
From one man he made all the nations, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he marked out their appointed times in history and the boundaries of their lands.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 
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pitabread

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I don't believe one can prove either common descent or common design. They are interpretations of the evidence based on our respective presuppositions.

Common descent (e.g. phylogenetics) has practical applications. Where are the equivalent applications for common design in biology?

(The insinuation that they are equivalent positions rapidly disappears when one considers real-world biology and the applications thereof.)
 
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Humble_Disciple

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Why do we need to assume that science has a monopoly on all knowledge and therefore, the creation of man must have a scientific explanation?

A practical application of creation over evolution might be that the Ten Commandments are a better standard for human morality than the survival of the fittest.
 
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pitabread

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A practical application of creation over evolution might be that the Ten Commandments are a better standard for human morality than the survival of the fittest.

Adoption of a theistic view re: morality isn't a specific application of "creation" (e.g. common design which is what you claimed previously).

And "survival of the fittest" is not intended as a moral standard.

I'm talking about applications re: the biological sciences. For example, common descent is used in the application of phylogenetics data for the purpose of genomic comparisons and identification and annotation of genes.

There are no equivalent applications in biology for "common design".
 
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Humble_Disciple

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I don't think we're on the same wave length. You seem to assume that science should have a monopoly on all human knowledge.

It can't be scientifically proven that Jesus was raised from the dead. Christians believe it because they trust the testimony of the apostles, who willingly died for their testimony of having witnessed the risen Christ.

In the same token, it can't be scientifically proven that God created Adam and Eve. I just happen to trust that God inspired Moses to record events from before the availability of written history, either because the events were revealed to Moses or because God inspired him to draw from oral traditions that went back to Adam.
 
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pitabread

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I don't think we're on the same wave length. You seem to assume that science should have a monopoly on all human knowledge.

I never said that at all.

Rather, I'm asking what applications there are specifically for common design in fields of applied biology in lieu of common descent. After all, you're the one that seems to think they are equivalent concepts.

In actuality they are not equivalent and there are no applications of common design.
 
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AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
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I don't think we're on the same wave length. You seem to assume that science should have a monopoly on all human knowledge.
QV please:
Scientism is the promotion of science as the best or only objective means by which society should determine normative and epistemological values.

SOURCE
 
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pitabread

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Shemjaza

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Do you believe that natural selection acting on random mutation (or some other natural mechanism) is responsible for human intelligence, language, morality, mathematical ability, etc. because of the evidence itself or because of your own biases?
Yes, the evidence.

Much like the physical variation between humans and chimps can be demonstrated by extinct hominids... evidence for varying cognitive ability, imagination and technology can also be inferred from the remains.

But a decent amount of your points are cultural anyway. Genetically almost identical modern humans have had a vast array of different attitudes and expressions of morality, technology and language.
 
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Shemjaza

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A practical application of creation over evolution might be that the Ten Commandments are a better standard for human morality than the survival of the fittest.
They are also a better standard of morality than force equals mass times acceleration or power equals voltage times current... but that doesn't make physics false anymore than evolution.

Evolution is a physical process and a scientific theory explaining that physical process. It isn't a theology or a moral code.
 
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Astrid

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A practical application of creation over evolution might be that the Ten Commandments are a better standard for human morality than the survival of the fittest.

I wonder what you think "survival of the fittest" means.

Is it about individual survival, or, what is best for the group?
Is it always about such as strength, speed and cunning?
Is altruism moral?
Is altruism against "survival of the fittest"?
What do you think "fittest" means?
 
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Frank Robert

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Do you believe that natural selection acting on random mutation (or some other natural mechanism) is responsible for human intelligence, language, morality, mathematical ability, etc. because of the evidence itself or because of your own biases?
It is unlikely that we will ever know the exact mechanisms but there are theories and models that can account for their evolution taking place over millions of years. Evolution of kinship is one example.
 
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Frank Robert

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I don't believe one can prove either common descent or common design. They are interpretations of the evidence based on our respective presuppositions.
Science is about evidence not proof. There is evidence for common descent while not much evidence for common design without invoking the supernatural.
 
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Frank Robert

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A practical application of creation over evolution might be that the Ten Commandments are a better standard for human morality than the survival of the fittest.
False dichotomy. Culture is likely the largest influence on our morality. The OT is mostly about early Hebrew culture.
 
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Astrid

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The difference between an alligator and a crocodile is
greater than chimp / human, and nobody is befuddled by
the still greater difference between penguin and hummingbird.

Goddidit or evolution did it explains nothing- obviously.

If there must be an explanation in infinitely small detail for everything
that occurred in human development over the past few million years
then there is safety from ever having to accept that evolution is real.

Every existing piece of evidence, every new piece discovered shows the
trend of modern man developing from non human ancestors.
It's called evoluti9n.

That is just a fact, and denying it is akin to denying that night follows day.
 
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