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What About Progressive Sanctification?

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Again, I do not want to argue back and forth with you on this topic. I believe a baby's physical body is condemned to death by Adam's sin. It is only by Jesus Christ and what He had done for us that a baby who dies at birth is saved. If Jesus never went to the cross, we would all be doomed on the account of Adam's sin. That is why what Jesus did was so important. He brokes the chains of spiritual death. This is what makes salvation primarily how we are saved by God's grace and not of anything that we did. Granted, we do need to later enter the Sanctification Process as a part of salvation, but this is only AFTER we are saved by God's grace. God's grace is the foundation by which we are saved. If it was all based on our performance alone (without God's grace and redemption), then we would all be doomed because we cannot pay the penalty and or forgive our own sin.

Side Note:

Unfortunately, many in the church today turn God's grace into a license for immorality (Jude 1:4). But God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
 
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JAL

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How is that a rebuttal? Where did I deny our need for Jesus to atone for our sin? As I said, you seem to spend a LOT of time "debating" facts not even in dispute.
 
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How is that a rebuttal? Where did I deny our need for Jesus to atone for our sin? As I said, you seem to spend a LOT of time "debating" facts not even in dispute.

It was not meant to be a rebuttal or an attack on what you believe. I have no idea what you believe. I am only speaking about what I know God's Word to say. I did not read all your points because I am not looking to go back and forth with you on this topic. All I can do is encourage you to talk to the Lord about this topic, and consider the truth more that Original Sin could be true. I know that if you were to honestly hunt that this could possibly be true, I think the Lord will surprise you. But if you already made up your mind on what you prefer to see, then you will see only what you want to see, my friend.

Peace, and blessings be unto you in the Lord today.
 
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JAL

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Man`s holiness is imperfect, Always a work in progress, very few attain that level of perfection in their works.
Progress? You do realize that progress is a stem to the word "progressive" and thus progressive sanctification, right? From the outset most participants on this thread seem to be in agreement that there is no way to avoid the concept of progressive sanctification. You keep dancing around it but often your own words seem to clearly imply it.
 
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How is that a rebuttal? Where did I deny our need for Jesus to atone for our sin? As I said, you seem to spend a LOT of time "debating" facts not even in dispute.

The issue comes down to the fact that are babies who die saved on the account of them being purely innocent? Or are babies who die saved primarily based on what Jesus Christ has done for us?
 
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I agree that is highly illogical to deny Progressive Sanctification. Every Christian who walks in holiness with the Lord should know that they were not at the same maturity level as when they first got saved. We have to study to show ourselves approved unto God according to 2 Timothy 2:15. In other words, we have to first learn God's commands before we can apply them to our lives. I would say it naturally takes time to do that. So Christians are at different levels of perfecting themselves in the fear of God. It's a logical conclusion. To deny this is to simply deny what the Bible plainly says.
 
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JAL

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LOL. Here we go again - you are arguing facts not in dispute. For the b-zillionth time, I ACCEPT the doctrine of Original Sin - we are all guilty in Adam and born with a sinful nature accordingly. All I've done is simply shaved the rough edges off the traditional formulation as to liberate it from contradictions.
 
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JAL

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The issue comes down to the fact that are babies saved on the account of them being purely innocent, or are they saved primarily based on what Jesus Christ has done for us?
Oh you are emphasizing the babies issue. I personally don't believe that babies are automatically saved, as they are guilty in Adam. If they were automatically saved, it would be best for their parents to kill them in infancy, to spare them any chance of going to hell.
 
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You could have fooled me. You seemed to be arguing against Original Sin because I was making my case for it, and you disagreed with it. Only now you are saying you believe in Original Sin. You did not say that before.
 
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Uh, what?
So you believe that babies who die go to Hell?
 
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JAL

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You could have fooled me. You seemed to be arguing against Original Sin because I was making my case for it, and you disagreed with it. Only now you are saying you believe in Original Sin. You did not say that before.
Yes I did say it before.
 
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JAL

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Uh, what?
So you believe that babies who die go to Hell?
Election is in God's hands. If He chooses to regenerate them just before they die, they goto heaven. But we shouldn't assume He will do so. Again, if we made that assumption, the best thing we could do for all babies is to kill them in their infancy, to guarantee their salvation.
 
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Yes I did say it before.

Did you say it in your first rebuttal? For I usually tend to tune people out and just skim read a person's post (after the first post) if I feel like the Lord does not want me to argue a particular issue with someone.
 
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JAL

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Did you say it in your first rebuttal? For I usually tend to tune people out and just skim read a person's post (after the first post) if I feel like the Lord does not want me to argue a particular issue with someone.
I'm beginning to think that you were responding to my posts about Adam without actually comprehending them. From the getgo I've been arguing that we are guilty in Adam but expressing a non-traditional explanation as to WHY and HOW we are guilty in him.
 
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But murder is a sin, and so we could not do that. I don't believe a Christ abiding Christian would ever do that. I believe God's Spirit would compell them otherwise. I think a Christian will realize that they have to live out their faith and if they are truly chosen, they could even accept Christ on their death bed (if that is God's will).

As for some babies going to hell:
That is still pretty whack, brother. Babies do not have a concept of right and wrong yet. I believe babies who die go to Heaven because God has arranged that particular soul to be the one in whom He knew would accept Him in this life if they were given a chance to live.
 
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And what would that be?
 
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JAL

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I disagree. Christians are quite capable of murder.


No. YOUR position is wacked. You hold to the TRADITIONAL version of Original Sin where babes haven't really done anything wrong, and thus God is the evil monster who allows innocent babes to suffer starvation, diseases, abuse, and drug-addiction in the womb.

I do not worship a monster. I worship Yahweh.
 
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RickReads

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Not really. I was talking about works, not sanctification. Man`s doctrine of progressive sanctification borrows from the scriptures so similarities will arise (i.e. you accused me of being a Calvinist because I talk about scriptures that Calvin used.)

People get better at being Christians as time goes by. Why would I deny that? I don`t and never did but that isn`t Biblical sanctification.
 
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RickReads

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Again, I was talking about works not sanctification. They are not the same thing.
 
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