Like I said on another thread.....
Forgiving and praying for someone DOES NOT mean that you are toleranting sin.
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I had a really good pastor one time, who made a profound statement concerning tolerance. He was primarily addressing new parents, but it applies to all of us: "You deserve whatever you tolerate!"I was about to response this to a post of one thread but after writing and reading, I decided to post this in a new thread.
EACH of us are responsible to discipline not only our own lives but also the lives of those around us including our spiritual leaders. After examining our own hearts, we must be alert for sin in the Christian community. Ephesians 5:11 says, "Have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness but, rather reprove them." First Timothy 5:2O says, "Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear." In 1 Timothy 1:20 Paul mentions Hymenaeus and Alexander by name, saying they were "delivered unto Satan, that they [might] learn not to blaspheme." In Titus 1:13 Paul exhorts Titus to rebuke unruly believers "sharply, that they may be sound in the faith." In Luke 17:3 Jesus says, "If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him."
The Christian community must examine sin because purity is basic to evangelism and reaching out to outsiders who don't know Christ.
Are we so eager to be tolerant?
Think about this: If Christians lower the expectations on their leadership, they will be much more comfortable with their own sin. With lower moral standards, Christians becomes more tolerant of sin and less tolerant of holiness.
Satan is fighting very hard to lower our holiness standards in Churches and Christian community. In the Old Testament, whenever the living God revealed Himself in various ways, those who saw were in terror and amazement and they saw themselves as guilty and unclean by comparison. Today, there are Christians who are not really in knowledge of God's holiness that they have become spiritually ignorant to receive or to appreciate sound doctrine. Many people are always looking for something to give them a lift that have no relation whatsoever to true doctrines.
Holiness is the balance between each of us and the law of God as expressed in Jesus Christ within us spiritually. We need to guard our minds, emotions, and wills, "bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5). Many Christians today rationalize away the demands (liberalism) which makes comfortable with their sins in their lives including their leaders' sins. When we trivialize the Scriptures doctrinally, we reduce Gods Commandments of our Christian lives to tolerancism. Tolerance means allowable deviation from higher standards which leads to hidden policy of permitting forms of behaviors not officially established.
After seeing threads and posts, I am disappointed how many (especially from one group) who are really so self-centered that they are willing to forsake God-centered doctrines and holiness. Today, Christians have lower the essentials of Christian life and practice of Christian doctrines. I am reminded of this verse: For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. When a Christian have a selfish heart of greed is their master, not God's holiness. Our motives in our Christian lives should be both holy and genuine. Scriptures states that my own interests before God is sin, in God's point of view. The Word of God exposed the sin of self-interest and that I am to live God-centered and others-centered life.
Knowing your true enemy is important and that enemy is Satan who can easily become the tool of Satan, who is called the accuser who will find ways to lower God's holiness standards among Christians. To me, this is sad that this is really happening in my lifetime as the Bible said it would happen.The time is getting closer.
I had a really good pastor one time, who made a profound statement concerning tolerance. He was primarily addressing new parents, but it applies to all of us: "You deserve whatever you tolerate!"
i think it's not so much that we are tollerant, but that having seen a lack of holiness and personal responsibility both here on the forum and on a national level, we are disillusioned from viewing man and his failings for too long a time.
We are forgetting that our eyes should be on God.if we keep our eyes on Him and if our first concern is how to please Him, THEN we will know better how to treat our fellow Christians.
but if our main concern is the beam in our brother's eye, then we have taken our focus off of God, put our trust in our own wisdom, and our feet are in grave danger of following after where our eye is focused.
There's just so much sin consciousness (which the Bible calls an "evil conscience") and self-appointed church policemen in this forum. And betw the 2, the latter stinks more.
I agree with the self appointed police part of that, Andrew. When people are only interested in disunity instead of unity then the family of God is only tearing there own selves down.There's just so much sin consciousness (which the Bible calls an "evil conscience") and self-appointed church policemen in this forum. And betw the 2, the latter stinks more.
What makes someone tolerant of a leaders sin? Not talking and gossiping about it.
Since when did any of us become the Holy Spirit that is responsible for convicting one of their sins and changing their hearts.
It is not my job to hold someone accountable for their sins that I don't even know personally. It is even more not my job to beat the hell out of a subject that none of us has any control over. It is our job as Christians, lest we fall, is to pray for and pick up our brothers when they fall. If we are talking about Todd, I will go ahead and say, what he is dealing with, GOD WILL DEAL WITH HIM, NOT MAN!
What we can do is learn from him in whatever errors he has made, pray for him, and ask God to show us our own BEAMS in our own eyes so that we can die to our own flesh lest something like this happens to us..Because it surely can. None of us has arrived.
He has been held accountable by those around him and God. The whole world sees his fall, what more does he need? The rest of CF actually knocking on his door to beat him?
We need to be held accountable and grieved in our own spirits to sit here and call ourselves Spirit-filled and bashing the hell out of this man like we are sitting in God's place.
Each one of you men on here, could be in his position right now. How many of you have had affairs or came close to them? Or had emotional affairs or looked at a woman with lust in your eye? Or had impure thoughts of another woman/man? Or masturbated thinking about another woman? Or was tempted to, so on and so on.
These self-righteous attitudes on this board just stink to death.
As soon as something happens to someone here, "Pray for me" threads are open. Where are the pray for me threads for TODD?
HYPOCRITES!!!!
Rather than calling people a bunch of names, did you ever think that there may be a difference in spiritual maturity between folks here? Did you ever think that maybe you are lacking this maturity in areas that folks have already?
What one person tolerates maybe another will not because their walk is closer to Jesus than the folks who hold Him at a long distance relationship.
Maybe it's the opposite. Maybe its because those who are closer to God can realise that condemning and judging don't work. But that healing, love and restoration are whats needed. Maybe the ones who want to constantly point out others failings are actually like the young boy who constantly tattles on his brother!
Maybe?
Come on! Grow up! If you feel the need to constantly remind everyone how much closer you are to God than they are I'd politely suggest you aren't anywhere near as close as you think you are! To suggest this kind of thing, is to risk falling into arrogance and pride!
God bless
Simon
Joh 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.
Feeling defensive over things?
If you want emulate love, this is the type that GOD approves of,..
Me? nah! Just wanted to make a point!
You darned skippy! That we lay down our lives. Lording our relationship with God over others is most certainly not this!
God bless
Simon
Who is lording any relationship over anyone? You need to take your accusations and bitterness somewhere else friend.
Sorry! I obviously misheard you when you said "Did you ever think that maybe you are lacking this maturity in areas that folks have already?"
I simply asked the same question of you. No bitterness, just a simple question. My friend people can disagree without the need for this kind of rediculous statement. Just because we don't agree with you does not mean that either side is any less mature. If you are truly more mature than someone else then the last thing you do is to question someone elses matrurity in this way. It just makes the questioner look arrogant and prideful. It certainly doesn't help to get your point across.
Just to clarify this isn't the first time you have said something like this, a while ago you tried to tell me that you had a relationship with God that I could never understand, now maybe I am misinterpreting you due to the way that online forums miss out subtleties of the english language, and if that is the case then I stand corrected. However, comments like these do not win you any friends.
God bless
Simon
Looking for a fight this morning Simon?
Yes it is bitterness out of yourself, and I would appreciate that you let others speak for themselves instead of prompting this white knight moment out of yourself as the savior of forumites in front of folks.
If the person I adressed felt I was trying to say that his spiritual maturity was anything less, he can certainly speak for himself.
Oh,... and GOD bless.
I just can't understand why people need to appear "more spiritually mature" than others (especially when we disagree!).
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