Way Of The Master

Zecryphon · Nov 7, 2007

BakaFidelis said:
I have just spent two hours going over the Way of the Master website.

First off, they offer some splendid tips. I will give them that. They have some talented writers to think of novel approaches of talking to people about Christ.

However, they have some serious flaws. It was hard to tell what their exact doctrine is on issues as everything is in tip or anecdotal form. But here are three things that I was able to pull from their website, without reading the prescribed books.

The Way of the Master teaches:

1. Decision Theology. Not only do they present video about decisions made for Christ, they mention the sinner's prayer is not always helpful to lead a person to the sinner's prayer but let them do it themselves in their own words. Not that it is errored doctrine, but that the person should make the decision on their own and not be led into it.

2. Full immersion baptism. Thereby saying that because full immersion baptism is the only acceptable baptism, our baptisms are not valid.

3. Some sins are not covered by the cross. This one was fuzzy. I am not sure if this is what they actually teach and believe, but in one article, one of them asks a bunch of teens if they think Killers and Rapists are allowed in Heaven. He replied to them. "Of course not." He did not go back to mention that should they repent and turn to Christ, even they will be included in the elect.

4. They seem to believe in the Rapture/Milleniest view. Though there was nothing written ABOUT it that I could find, they mentioned Kirk Cameron being in the movie "Left Behind" more than once and did not make an effort to state it is not what they believed.

5. They claim that God put inconsistencies in Scripture because God wanted to trip up unbelievers.

All in all, no matter how well intentioned they are, they have major gaps in their theology. I would advise anyone that listens to them, to be VERY careful or it could cause doubt in your own salvation.

I think as far as decision theology goes with WOTM that there is a division in the ministry on this subject. I have heard Ray Comfort promote it, while I have heard Todd Friel the host of the podcast/radio show say that we do not play a role in our salvation, that it's all God from beginning to end. So I'm hesitant to say what their official stance is on this one. I could always shoot an email over to them and find out. As of now, I'll say the guys in CA promote decision theology while the guys in MN do not.

BakaFidelis · Nov 7, 2007

A house divided cannot stand. That has been the consistent thorn in LCMS side. Tho we pray for them ceaselessly, some in LCMS say it is getting better, others in LCMS say it is getting worse.

In the case of WotM, they seem to lack any set doctrine. It is as if they want to appeal to everyone and so become generalists to the different denominations. It doesn't set right that someone would have to email to find out what an organization's belief system is...

Zecryphon · Nov 7, 2007

BakaFidelis said:
A house divided cannot stand. That has been the consistent thorn in LCMS side. Tho we pray for them ceaselessly, some in LCMS say it is getting better, others in LCMS say it is getting worse.

In the case of WotM, they seem to lack any set doctrine. It is as if they want to appeal to everyone and so become generalists to the different denominations. It doesn't set right that someone would have to email to find out what an organization's belief system is...

I'm not talking about sending an email to get their entire belief system, I'm talking about an email asking for clarification on their promotion of or belief in decision theology. They are Non-Denominational as far as I can tell. I've never seen a statement of faith from them as far as their ministry is concerned, but remember they're not a church so a statement of faith is not really important. They exist for the sole purpose of training evangelists to go out and share their faith Biblically, just like Jesus did. That's pretty much it. Their books, cds, dvds, podcasts, all center around evangelism. Even their Evidence Bible contains apologetic study notes that point towards sharing your faith with the world.

Zecryphon · Nov 7, 2007

BakaFidelis said:
A house divided cannot stand. That has been the consistent thorn in LCMS side. Tho we pray for them ceaselessly, some in LCMS say it is getting better, others in LCMS say it is getting worse.

In the case of WotM, they seem to lack any set doctrine. It is as if they want to appeal to everyone and so become generalists to the different denominations. It doesn't set right that someone would have to email to find out what an organization's belief system is...

I went to the Way of the Master main site, not the site for the radio show or the Living Waters site, and found this:

Our Mission and Statement of Faith
150,000 people die every 24 hours—most without the Savior. We are deeply concerned that so few Christians reach out to the lost. Statistics show that this is as low as 5%. One of the reasons for this is that many don’t feel equipped. As a ministry, our sole purpose is to inspire and equip Christians—to teach them how to share the gospel simply, effectively, biblically . . . the way Jesus did. “The Way of the Master” is non-denominational. We believe and preach that the Bible is the Word of God, and that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, crucified for the sin of the world, and that He rose again on the third day. We believe and teach that salvation is by grace, through faith, and not of works.

BakaFidelis · Nov 7, 2007

Except, non-denominational is a denomination in and of itself...

I know you weren't talking about their entire belief system, but if they are teaching, they are teaching something and that something should be spelled out.

To me, from what I have read, they are closest to Reformed Baptist theology, non-denominational or not...

Zecryphon · Nov 7, 2007

BakaFidelis said:
Except, non-denominational is a denomination in and of itself...

I know you weren't talking about their entire belief system, but if they are teaching, they are teaching something and that something should be spelled out.

To me, from what I have read, they are closest to Reformed Baptist theology, non-denominational or not...

Wouldn't all ND churches have to agree upon the same basic principles for Non-Denom to be considered a denomination? Not all ND churches agree when it comes to what they believe. This is the problem the ND section had recently when drawing up a statement of beliefs. Not all people who consider themselves ND believe the same things.

As far as what WotM teaches, the only thing they really teach is how to evangelize. They do not offer a teaching on decision theology specifically and have never mentioned the doctrine by name as far as I know. I'll take your word for it on the Reformed Baptist thing.

BakaFidelis · Nov 7, 2007

Zecryphon said:
Wouldn't all ND churches have to agree upon the same basic principles for Non-Denom to be considered a denomination? Not all ND churches agree when it comes to what they believe. This is the problem the ND section had recently when drawing up a statement of beliefs. Not all people who consider themselves ND believe the same things.

As far as what WotM teaches, the only thing they really teach is how to evangelize. They do not offer a teaching on decision theology specifically and have never mentioned the doctrine by name as far as I know. I'll take your word for it on the Reformed Baptist thing.

Mmm that's why I said "in and of itself". Each church or organization can be different, but each WILL have doctrine, even if they don't use that word.

GSJ1967 · Nov 8, 2007

UGH! This is all so confusing! LOL To be honest I never studied their website. Yes their main goal is to teach you how to witness, but the podcasts seem to be very sound. Ray Comfort is never really on execpt to witness once each hour to someone off the street via a cell phone. Other than a quick 3 to 10 minutes of live witnessing, the show is all Todd Friel. Based on the shows, Todd's theology is Biblical.........................................at least it seems so.

RadMan · Nov 8, 2007

GSJ1967 said:
UGH! This is all so confusing! LOL To be honest I never studied their website. Yes their main goal is to teach you how to witness, but the podcasts seem to be very sound. Ray Comfort is never really on execpt to witness once each hour to someone off the street via a cell phone. Other than a quick 3 to 10 minutes of live witnessing, the show is all Todd Friel. Based on the shows, Todd's theology is Biblical.........................................at least it seems so.

And that's the problem for new Lutherans or Lutherans that haven't had a biblically sound background in the scriptures and extensive cathecise. It's confusing.

They hear maybe 60% solid doctrine but the other 40% isn't and it confuses them. The 60% draws them in because it sounds right and then they accept the 40% because there is no solid base of their faith. It's like having contemporary services in a Lutheran church. If the young Lutheran goes to a reformed, fundamentalist church that has the same type of service, they are more apt to be influenced by what they hear because the service is familiar.

Young Christians are too impressionable. I can go to those services or read their web site and I'm not effected. New Christians have no solid base for what they believe yet and can be highly influenced.

.

.

BakaFidelis · Nov 8, 2007

Radman is correct. We don't want to discourage you from your faith, or from sharing with us. We just care about you. We don't want you to be confused.

As a side note, have you been through adult study of the catechism yet? I have been through it twice. Not including my confirmation class when I was 12

I wanted to do it again this year, but our pastor is having difficulty with scheduling conflicts for people who wanted to attend (due to their work schedules). He said that he might just offer a dvd-based course this year and actually meet with them less. I am hoping not,because there is just something that is there in a face to face setting.

Check with your pastor to see if anything is being offered. And just to be sure, I am not talking Bible classes, but adult catechism

Zecryphon · Nov 8, 2007

BakaFidelis said:
Radman is correct. We don't want to discourage you from your faith, or from sharing with us. We just care about you. We don't want you to be confused.

As a side note, have you been through adult study of the catechism yet? I have been through it twice. Not including my confirmation class when I was 12

I wanted to do it again this year, but our pastor is having difficulty with scheduling conflicts for people who wanted to attend (due to their work schedules). He said that he might just offer a dvd-based course this year and actually meet with them less. I am hoping not,because there is just something that is there in a face to face setting.

Check with your pastor to see if anything is being offered. And just to be sure, I am not talking Bible classes, but adult catechism

I hear what you guys are saying and you're absolutely correct. You should know what you believe and why you believe it before you expose yourself either willingly or unwillingly to other points of view on doctrinal issues. I always had trouble with decision theology even when I was in the Reformed camp. And the whole "ask Jesus into your heart" thing, forget it. I was always baffled by the thought that Jesus couldn't save us until we allowed Him to. How does an act of man overrule an act of God? It never made sense to me.

Aibrean · Nov 8, 2007

I've been on both sides (raised Brethren/non-denom) and I can tell you the Lutheran ways just make more sense!

Orion567 · Nov 21, 2007

Amen Aibrean. I went to Calvary Capel and many Baptist churches and the Lutheran ways make very much sense. They preach Christ and Him crucified every sunday, not just when the pastor feels like it. Like when they have a sermon on tithing! EEK! Lutheran congregations get fed Christ EVERY sunday. I praise the Lord for being fed what I need every sunday and that is Christ, my God and my Lord.

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