Watchtower said : Prayers of non-JWs are not heard!

eksesar · Oct 13, 2005

No, that's not what I think, but it IS what The Watchtower teaches! See page 27 of the July 15, 2002 issue, where it states

A Christian sister may on occasion be accompanied on a Bible study by an unbaptized male Kingdom publisher. If she wishes, she may ask him to conduct the study. But since he could not properly represent the baptized sister in prayer to Jehovah, it would be proper for her to pray at the study. If she is conducting the study or is praying, the sister would need to cover her head. Even though the male publisher is not yet baptized, outsiders identify him with the congregation because of his preaching activity

Did you get that? "he could not properly represent the baptized sister in prayer"! !!! Who decides the "properly"? Could it be they are denying entry to Jehovah? Surely not!

Interestingly, they make allowance for the "outsiders" viewing him as being identified with the congregation....even if they don't! Is that "living a lie"? Or what?

What a sorry world for those who live by 'man's rule'! Notice that in the whole paragraph, there is not one scripture quoted, or referred to. I wonder why?

EchoPneuma · Oct 13, 2005

eksesar said:
No, that's not what I think, but it IS what The Watchtower teaches! See page 27 of the July 15, 2002 issue, where it states

Did you get that? "he could not properly represent the baptized sister in prayer"! !!! Who decides the "properly"? Could it be they are denying entry to Jehovah? Surely not!

Interestingly, they make allowance for the "outsiders" viewing him as being identified with the congregation....even if they don't! Is that "living a lie"? Or what?

What a sorry world for those who live by 'man's rule'! Notice that in the whole paragraph, there is not one scripture quoted, or referred to. I wonder why?

I'm sure some JW will come along shortly and explain it all away.

eksesar · Oct 13, 2005

EchoPneuma said:
I'm sure some JW will come along shortly and explain it all away.

I hope so, sometimes WT quotes out of Bible, and yet sounds Doctrine, And every member of JW's should follow.

Hi TB could you explain why this Happenned?

Logicalthinker · Oct 14, 2005

I studied with JW's for about a year. All of thier prophecies don't come true. God said that you will know his people by thier prophecies.

Deuteronomy 18
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Well their not very good at it. 1914 was the end of the world and when it did not happen they changed it too, that is when Jesus came back to earth but not in a physical body. than the end was to happen in 1976. Well that did not happen either.

Through my experience with them they are willing to believe anything the Watchtower prints, But to me it is alot of propaganda. There are somethings I agree with them about but for the most part it is a cult.

"Never believe any religion that has the answer for everything that is a cult."
As my Grandma used to always say.

I believe the true church is with in the teachings of Jesus Christ and most churches I find fall short of this.

Bananna · Oct 14, 2005

arrogance is in the eye of the beholder.

I find it interesting that if she teaches she should cover her head.

bananna

eksesar · Oct 17, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
I studied with JW's for about a year. All of thier prophecies don't come true. God said that you will know his people by thier prophecies.

Deuteronomy 18
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Well their not very good at it. 1914 was the end of the world and when it did not happen they changed it too, that is when Jesus came back to earth but not in a physical body. than the end was to happen in 1976. Well that did not happen either.

Through my experience with them they are willing to believe anything the Watchtower prints, But to me it is alot of propaganda. There are somethings I agree with them about but for the most part it is a cult.

"Never believe any religion that has the answer for everything that is a cult."
As my Grandma used to always say.

I believe the true church is with in the teachings of Jesus Christ and most churches I find fall short of this.

Yup, False prophets among us which their teaching is not Bible base.

quoting from in the mind of man then teach it as doctrines and not bible base, typical cult.

eksesar · Oct 18, 2005

Bananna said:
arrogance is in the eye of the beholder.

I find it interesting that if she teaches she should cover her head.

bananna

Here is an Interesting Topic also.
http://www.christianforums.com/t2223104-watchtower-and-1918-predictions.html

eksesar · Oct 24, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
I studied with JW's for about a year. All of thier prophecies don't come true. God said that you will know his people by thier prophecies.

Deuteronomy 18
20 But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21 And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Well their not very good at it. 1914 was the end of the world and when it did not happen they changed it too, that is when Jesus came back to earth but not in a physical body. than the end was to happen in 1976. Well that did not happen either.

Through my experience with them they are willing to believe anything the Watchtower prints, But to me it is alot of propaganda. There are somethings I agree with them about but for the most part it is a cult.

"Never believe any religion that has the answer for everything that is a cult."
As my Grandma used to always say.

I believe the true church is with in the teachings of Jesus Christ and most churches I find fall short of this.

Here is the link about 1918

Scan Image inside this link below, Very rare document that Watchtower said 1918 ....
http://www.christianforums.com/t2223104-watchtower-and-1918-predictions.html

The Gregorian · Oct 25, 2005

dun dun duuuuuuunnnn

While I don't believe in ascribing to any sect (read galations 5, works of the flesh including divisions and sects, etc.)... I have learned a lot from studying from the JWs and I don't like seeing people bash them so much.

Here's what I believe they meant (and what I agree with).

1: As far as the guy not being able to adiquitely represent the woman in prayer... it's because it's not his place. You don't have an excuse not to pray, just because someone else is doing it for you... each of us should pray for ourselves... we should want to... why wouldn't someone want to? It's fine to pray for the wellbeing of others, etc.... but this doesn't excuse you from prayer. If the woman (or anyone) wants to draw close to God, they need to do a lot of praying themselves.

2: As for the covering her head comment: True... the bible does state, in the old testimate, that women were to cover their head in public... but I believe that not to be a heavenly sanction, but rather an instruction not to defy the moral teachings of what is acceptable in your area: Example: I don't salute the flag, because my allegiance is solely with God... I respect America as a generally good country... but I will follow God to the end, regardless of what anyone or anything says... including the american flag. However, I would never disrespect the flag because it would offend others... likewise... in areas where people would take offense to women 'exposing themselves' by not covering their head... I believe it would be right to follow the norms for the times they're in.... however in most of the modern world... there is nothing wrong with women, and I don't believe a head cover is necissary.... although if they don't mind... eh, why not? I certainly wouldn't discourage a woman from praying just because she didn't have something to cover her head.

Like I said though, I'm no more a JW than I am a catholic... I'm just a christian... who happens to have studied with JW's, lutherans, catholics, and...however many denominations of protestants that seperate themselves from eachother in the name for their own financial gain....

that make sense though, or am I reading it wrong?

eksesar · Oct 26, 2005

The Gregorian said:
dun dun duuuuuuunnnn

While I don't believe in ascribing to any sect (read galations 5, works of the flesh including divisions and sects, etc.)... I have learned a lot from studying from the JWs and I don't like seeing people bash them so much.

Here's what I believe they meant (and what I agree with).

1: As far as the guy not being able to adiquitely represent the woman in prayer... it's because it's not his place. You don't have an excuse not to pray, just because someone else is doing it for you... each of us should pray for ourselves... we should want to... why wouldn't someone want to? It's fine to pray for the wellbeing of others, etc.... but this doesn't excuse you from prayer. If the woman (or anyone) wants to draw close to God, they need to do a lot of praying themselves.

2: As for the covering her head comment: True... the bible does state, in the old testimate, that women were to cover their head in public... but I believe that not to be a heavenly sanction, but rather an instruction not to defy the moral teachings of what is acceptable in your area: Example: I don't salute the flag, because my allegiance is solely with God... I respect America as a generally good country... but I will follow God to the end, regardless of what anyone or anything says... including the american flag. However, I would never disrespect the flag because it would offend others... likewise... in areas where people would take offense to women 'exposing themselves' by not covering their head... I believe it would be right to follow the norms for the times they're in.... however in most of the modern world... there is nothing wrong with women, and I don't believe a head cover is necissary.... although if they don't mind... eh, why not? I certainly wouldn't discourage a woman from praying just because she didn't have something to cover her head.

Like I said though, I'm no more a JW than I am a catholic... I'm just a christian... who happens to have studied with JW's, lutherans, catholics, and...however many denominations of protestants that seperate themselves from eachother in the name for their own financial gain....

that make sense though, or am I reading it wrong?

your replyed doesn't help much. You missed something about Who hear your prayer and Why Watchtower stated like that ? does Watchtower goes beyond over what already written in the Bible ?

Read the topic !! If God hear our prayer, why does Watchtower state that ?

Many of Watchtower goes far away from the Bible. Wanna know ?
Why don't you ask to JWs a Watchtower's Magazines below.

Jesus did not teach, as the Watchtower Society does, that people should "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation" (The Watchtower November 15, 1981, page 21). Rather, he said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) The way of salvation that Jesus proclaimed was not through organizational membership or accurate knowledge of the Scripturesalthough these enter into it. In order to gain life, people had to come to Jesus personally. Under the new covenant there would be no other way to the Father, except through Jesus.

The Gregorian · Oct 27, 2005

eksesar said:
Jesus did not teach, as the Watchtower Society does, that people should "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation" (The Watchtower November 15, 1981, page 21). Rather, he said, "No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6) The way of salvation that Jesus proclaimed was not through organizational membership or accurate knowledge of the Scripturesalthough these enter into it. In order to gain life, people had to come to Jesus personally. Under the new covenant there would be no other way to the Father, except through Jesus.

Holy crap, I misunderstood your question.

First off, "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation" doesn't mean the same thing as what christ said. It's considered a given that we are worthy of saving due to Jesus' sacrifice, and that the only way to the Father is through Jesus (i.e. why we pray "in Jesus' name"). What the WTBS means by that is that going to church is a good way to learn what Jesus taught... they themselves have nothing to do with your salvation, they're just there to set the syllabus... the topic of the discussion remains the teachings found in the bible. Theoretically, the watchtower magazine should be nothing more than a study guide for understanding the bible... the magazine holds no authority whatsoever... it's just like going to a History class... The book's what's important... the teacher's (WTBS, in this illustration) just there to explain what the book means... and homework (the magazine the WTBS prints) is just there for repitition of the lesson.

Logicalthinker · Oct 31, 2005

The Gregorian said:
Holy crap, I misunderstood your question.

First off, "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation" doesn't mean the same thing as what christ said. It's considered a given that we are worthy of saving due to Jesus' sacrifice, and that the only way to the Father is through Jesus (i.e. why we pray "in Jesus' name"). What the WTBS means by that is that going to church is a good way to learn what Jesus taught... they themselves have nothing to do with your salvation, they're just there to set the syllabus... the topic of the discussion remains the teachings found in the bible. Theoretically, the watchtower magazine should be nothing more than a study guide for understanding the bible... the magazine holds no authority whatsoever... it's just like going to a History class... The book's what's important... the teacher's (WTBS, in this illustration) just there to explain what the book means... and homework (the magazine the WTBS prints) is just there for repitition of the lesson.

I too studied with the JW's and your wrong. They clearly teach that only JW's will be saved. No one else. Which would back up that they believe Only through their organization will you be saved. But I know and you probably know that only Jesus can save. Not an organization. My personal belief is that many people from many churches and organization will be saved as long as they individully follow the teaching of Jesus.

The Gregorian · Nov 9, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
I too studied with the JW's and your wrong. They clearly teach that only JW's will be saved. No one else. Which would back up that they believe Only through their organization will you be saved. But I know and you probably know that only Jesus can save. Not an organization. My personal belief is that many people from many churches and organization will be saved as long as they individully follow the teaching of Jesus.

... Well I'm not sure who you were talking to, but they've never claimed to me that the WTBS can save you. The bible does say "not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together" so they certainly encourage going to church on a regular basis... specifically not a church with anything they consider to be false teachings... but "JW membership" is in no way a prerequisit for salvation, and I've never heard them claim that. Sounds to me like you just went to a congregation with some messed up elders (and yes, like in all religions, some of the ones who do the most preaching are the furthest from God)

gort · Nov 9, 2005

The Gregorian said:
... Well I'm not sure who you were talking to, but they've never claimed to me that the WTBS can save you. The bible does say "not to forsake the gathering of yourselves together" so they certainly encourage going to church on a regular basis... specifically not a church with anything they consider to be false teachings... but "JW membership" is in no way a prerequisit for salvation, and I've never heard them claim that. Sounds to me like you just went to a congregation with some messed up elders (and yes, like in all religions, some of the ones who do the most preaching are the furthest from God)

Hello,

I would agree with Logicalthinker. I've had discussion with another JW quite some time ago, at another site.

Only the JW gets saved, either heaven or paradise earth.

The rest of us get anhilated.

<><

The Gregorian · Nov 11, 2005

hrm... well, I don't know what to tell you. From all of the JW's I know, I've never heard that suggested. I've seen a few people on the forums pretending to be JW's spreading all sorts of hatred around... claiming to be a JW and saying he eats babies and doesn't believe in Jesus and whatnot... then people think that all JWs do that... which is certainly not the case.

From what I've heard in the JW church you have to please God to be worthy of life (in heaven or on earth or whatnot, i.e. not go to hell or be destroyed, etc.). In order to please God you have to know things they teach at church (i.e. out of the bible)... but there's nothing that says "only JW's will be saved." ... what about the people who were around before the JW's formed? Are we to assume they're ALL outside of God's favor? That would make no sense whatsoever.

Until I hear a JW say "I'm a JW from this congregation and they teach that in our church" I don't believe that that's a JW doctrine.

gort · Nov 11, 2005

The Gregorian said:
hrm... well, I don't know what to tell you. From all of the JW's I know, I've never heard that suggested. I've seen a few people on the forums pretending to be JW's spreading all sorts of hatred around... claiming to be a JW and saying he eats babies and doesn't believe in Jesus and whatnot... then people think that all JWs do that... which is certainly not the case.

From what I've heard in the JW church you have to please God to be worthy of life (in heaven or on earth or whatnot, i.e. not go to hell or be destroyed, etc.). In order to please God you have to know things they teach at church (i.e. out of the bible)... but there's nothing that says "only JW's will be saved." ... what about the people who were around before the JW's formed? Are we to assume they're ALL outside of God's favor? That would make no sense whatsoever.

Until I hear a JW say "I'm a JW from this congregation and they teach that in our church" I don't believe that that's a JW doctrine.

From my talks with an unpublished JW, anyone who does not belong to the JW, is a member of the devils church. I asked him to be honest with me and he was. This was not done at this forum, but at another that really had nothing to do with religion. During our talks, I found out he was JW, and I asked him about it.

As in regards to pleasing God, it is faith that pleases God. And that faith involves what God has done for sinful man through the shed blood of Christ Jesus.

<><

eksesar · Nov 21, 2005

The Gregorian said:
Holy crap, I misunderstood your question.

First off, "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation" doesn't mean the same thing as what christ said. It's considered a given that we are worthy of saving due to Jesus' sacrifice, and that the only way to the Father is through Jesus (i.e. why we pray "in Jesus' name"). What the WTBS means by that is that going to church is a good way to learn what Jesus taught... they themselves have nothing to do with your salvation, they're just there to set the syllabus... the topic of the discussion remains the teachings found in the bible. Theoretically, the watchtower magazine should be nothing more than a study guide for understanding the bible... the magazine holds no authority whatsoever... it's just like going to a History class... The book's what's important... the teacher's (WTBS, in this illustration) just there to explain what the book means... and homework (the magazine the WTBS prints) is just there for repitition of the lesson.

Well, did you quotes "why we pray "in Jesus' name"" ?
1. Did you do like Early Christians (Apostles time)?
2. I don't think you ever read Acts 7:59. To Whom does Stephen Pray ?
3. I don't think you would understand with John 14:6,14. Jesus is the way to Salvations. and it IS NOT Organizations, isn't it ? Watchtower is trying to Intermediated between God and Man. Why do we have to go to Jehovah's Organization ? All I know that the Bible stated that We must go to Jesus to get Salvation (Acts 4:12). Where DOES in the bible ever stated that "come to Jehovahs organization for salvation", Show me, Bro ?
4. Are you a JWs ? Tell me. if so, What did you do in the Kingdom Hall ? is it just Understanding the Bible ? I don't think so. You did exercised in Watchtower and Awake focusing, and not the bible itself ?
5. Have you read Romans without any Watchtower Filter ? especially Romans 10. There are many Salvations issue inside. Good for you.

Well, have you know/have those WT Magazines below?

The Watchtower says:

"show our respect for Jehovah's organization, for she is our mother and the beloved wife of our heavenly Father, Jehovah God." (The Watchtower - May 1, 1957)

"Put faith in a victorious organization." (The Watchtower - March 1, 1979)

"come to Jehovah's organization for salvation." (The Watchtower - November 15, 1981)

"...stay by the faithful organization. How else can one get Jehovah's favor and blessing." (The Watchtower - July 15, 1996)

"gratitude for each and every blessing that we undeservedly receive from Jehovah and his organization." (The Watchtower - February 15, 1997)

WIFE ? Jehovah God have Wife ? Where is I can find this statement in the bible?

I would rather says "There's always Christ to go"

"Neither is there salvation in any other;for there is none other name under heaven given among men whereby we must be saved."(Acts 4:12)

"Wherefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him a name which is above every name,That are the name of Jesus every knee should bow of things in heaven,and things in the earth,and things under the earth.And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,to the glory of God the Father."(Philippians 2:9-11)

Romans 10:8-12,is good too.So the Watchtower has no authority to save..................

eksesar · Nov 21, 2005

Logicalthinker said:
I too studied with the JW's and your wrong. They clearly teach that only JW's will be saved. No one else. Which would back up that they believe Only through their organization will you be saved. But I know and you probably know that only Jesus can save. Not an organization. My personal belief is that many people from many churches and organization will be saved as long as they individully follow the teaching of Jesus.

That's true that Watchtower teach that only JW's will be saved, Here is the prove that Watchtower said so, hope this can help

*** Watchtower 1989 September 1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***

7 Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower 1988 January 1 p.16 The Last Days--A Time of Harvest ***

A person is identified as a 'sheep' or as a 'goat' by the way he responds to the angelic messages. During this 20th century, only Jehovah's Witnesses have cooperated with the angels in this vital work.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower 1988 January 1 p. 20 "The Good News Has to Be Preached First" ***

OF ALL those who claim to be Christian, only Jehovah's Witnesses take the preaching of the good news seriously.

[Emphasis Added]

*** Watchtower 1985 January 15 p. 29 How Do You View Jehovah's Name? ***

In fact, only Jehovah's Witnesses today follow the example of Jesus' early disciples and help people worldwide to 'call on the name of Jehovah and be saved.

[Emphasis Added]

Watchtower said : Prayers of non-JWs are not heard!

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Logicalthinker

Guest

Contributor

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Troll

Senior Member

Troll

Logicalthinker

Guest

Troll

pedantric

Troll

pedantric

Senior Member

Senior Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency