Was Peter Baptized?

Ahermit · Sep 14, 2017

Major1 said:
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one must be baptized in order to be saved.

I believe that we should want to be baptized because we are saved and water baptism is not a part of being saved.

Now in thinking about this, I tried to find a Bible verse which tells us when Peter was baptized.
You see, the RCC claims Peter as their 1st Pope and the thought occurred to me that if we go with the RCC teaching that a man must be baptized in order to be saved and their 1st Pope has no record of baptism then according to their own teaching, Peter would not have been saved.

Now wouldn't that be a hoot?...

Time to re-read James 14:1-13

Major1 · Sep 14, 2017

Thedictator said:
It was Martin Luther who came up with Faith alone in the 1500's. The fact that Baptism is NOT a work that we do, but is something that is done to us by God, Jesus, Holy Spirit, and the Baptizer ( in the Authority and power of God ) fits very well with Faith alone. But it must be the right kind of faith not dead faith that James talks about.

That simply is not true.

We are baptized by the Holy Spirit when we are saved and that is an act of God.

When we are baptized with water, that is some WE DO and it is actually an act of good works.

Winken · Sep 14, 2017

Major1 said:
Agreed 100%.

You have grasped the idea thoroughly.

Just for fun to those who believes a lost person MUST be saved in order to be saved, allow me to give an example to those people.

Lets say that YOU and me go to the hospital room of someones father who is lost. That person has had a car wreck and broken their neck and back and can not be moved.

We get there and talk to him and low and behold he asks us what it takes to be saved. We, YOU and me lead him to the Lord Jesus Christ and then ask him to pray the sinners prayer and he does. Then he dies right there in front of us without being able to baptize him. According to those who demand that baptism is need to be saved, they have just condemned their own father to hell BECAUSE HE DID NOT GET WET.

Now does any logical thinking person really believe that that is what God has in mind???????

I always insist that a pitcher of ice water be kept on the patient's bedside table. Those who splash him or her prior to confession have to refill the pitcher so that those who splash him or her at the precise moment of confession will refill the pitcher so that those who splash him or her after the confession or after death can set the pitcher aside.

Major1 · Sep 14, 2017

Ahermit said:
Time to re-read James 14:1-13

Just for fun........would you please post JAMES 14:1-13??????

Major1 · Sep 14, 2017

Winken said:
I always insist that a pitcher of ice water be kept on the patient's bedside table. Those who splash him or her prior to confession have to refill the pitcher so that those who splash him or her at the precise moment of confession will refill the pitcher so that those who splash him or her after the confession or after death can set the pitcher aside.

Good idea.

As a side........do you think that sprinkling instead of immersion is acceptable to God when the person is physically able in every way to be immersed?

concretecamper · Sep 14, 2017

FenderTL5 said:
Obviously this proves beyond doubt that he was never baptized.
There's no Biblical account of him dying either, so that means he's still alive and well somewhere in the Middle East.

But it is implied he died. I just learned there is a thing called implied truth we all can apply when we want the bible to say what it doesn't.

throughfiierytrial · Sep 14, 2017

Major1 said:
Actually there is NO Biblical directive that one must be baptized in order to be saved.
Yes, a saved should want to be baptized as an outward sign of an inward change in their life.
You see, we are saved from the INSIDE OUT and water baptism tells those who know us that we have changed.

Now, assumption can be a very dangerous thing.

A lot of people assumed that Jim Jones was a Christian preacher, when in fact he was a suicidal lunatic who killed 1000 people.

Many people assumed that Judas was a disciple but he was a devil.

Adolf Hitler was assumed to be a great political ruler who brought Germany out of the great depression but in reality he was an anti-Christ.

Millions of people hear the name, "Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints" and assume that they are Christians when in fact they deny Christ as God and believe that He and Satan are brothers.

No directive??
How about Matthew 28:16-20:
Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

and this baptism/obedience to Christ's command now saves us...
I Peter 3:20-22:
...while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God’s right hand—with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

Ahermit · Sep 14, 2017

Major1 said:
Just for fun........would you please post JAMES 14:1-13??????

Sorry, I meant Romans 14:1-13.
And no I will not post the verses because you again are gloating.
Instead of correcting and posting it yourself you make fun of others, such as myself and RCC, for self exploitation. Not very discerning, forgiving, understanding, or Christian if you asked me.

jaison jose · Sep 15, 2017

Major1 said:
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one must be baptized in order to be saved.

I believe that we should want to be baptized because we are saved and water baptism is not a part of being saved.

Now in thinking about this, I tried to find a Bible verse which tells us when Peter was baptized.
You see, the RCC claims Peter as their 1st Pope and the thought occurred to me that if we go with the RCC teaching that a man must be baptized in order to be saved and their 1st Pope has no record of baptism then according to their own teaching, Peter would not have been saved.

Now wouldn't that be a hoot????

Someone will try to use John 14 to say that that event was baptism. NO friends that will not work at all so please save us the argument over it. John 14 IS NOT baptism but is "Foot washing" and the context and exegesis is not about immersion for the cleansing of sin and salvation in any way.

Who is going to explain this?

The Roman Catholic Church sees Peter as the first pope upon whom God had chosen to build His church (Matthew 16:18). It holds that he had authority (primacy) over the other apostles. The Roman Catholic Church maintains that sometime after the recorded events of the book of Acts, the Apostle Peter became the first bishop of Rome, and that the Roman bishop was accepted by the early church as the central authority among all of the churches. It teaches that God passed Peter’s apostolic authority to those who later filled his seat as bishop of Rome. This teaching that God passed on Peter’s apostolic authority to the subsequent bishops is referred to as “apostolic succession.”

The Roman Catholic Church also holds that Peter and the subsequent popes were and are infallible when addressing issues “ex cathedra,” from their position and authority as pope. It teaches that this infallibility gives the pope the ability to guide the church without error. The Roman Catholic Church claims that it can trace an unbroken line of popes back to St. Peter, citing this as evidence that it is the true church, since, according to their interpretation of Matthew 16:18, Christ built His church upon Peter.

But while Peter was central in the early spread of the gospel (part of the meaning behind Matthew 16:18-19), the teaching of Scripture, taken in context, nowhere declares that he was in authority over the other apostles, or over the church (having primacy). See Acts 15:1-23; Galatians 2:1-14; and 1 Peter 5:1-5. Nor is it ever taught in Scripture that the bishop of Rome, or any other bishop, was to have primacy over the church. Scripture does not even explicitly record Peter even being in Rome. Rather there is only one reference in Scripture of Peter writing from “Babylon,” a name sometimes applied to Rome (1 Peter 5:13). Primarily upon this and the historical rise of the influence of the Bishop of Rome come the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching of the primacy of the bishop of Rome. However, Scripture shows that Peter’s authority was shared by the other apostles (Ephesians 2:19-20), and the “loosing and binding” authority attributed to him was likewise shared by the local churches, not just their church leaders (see Matthew 18:15-19; 1 Corinthians 5:1-13; 2 Corinthians 13:10; Titus 2:15; 3:10-11).

Also, nowhere does Scripture state that, in order to keep the church from error, the authority of the apostles was passed on to those they ordained (the idea behind apostolic succession). Apostolic succession is “read into” those verses that the Roman Catholic Church uses to support this doctrine (2 Timothy 2:2; 4:2-5; Titus 1:5; 2:1; 2:15; 1 Timothy 5:19-22). Paul does NOT call on believers in various churches to receive Titus, Timothy, and other church leaders based on their authority as bishops or their having apostolic authority, but rather based upon their being fellow laborers with him (1 Corinthians 16:10; 16:16; 2 Corinthians 8:23).

What Scripture DOES teach is that false teachings would arise even from among church leaders, and that Christians were to compare the teachings of these later church leaders with Scripture, which alone is infallible (Matthew 5:18; Psalm 19:7-8; 119:160; Proverbs 30:5; John 17:17; 2 Peter 1:19-21). The Bible does not teach that the apostles were infallible, apart from what was written by them and incorporated into Scripture. Paul, in talking to the church leaders in the large city of Ephesus, makes note of coming false teachers. To fight against their error does NOT commend them to “the apostles and those who would carry on their authority”; rather, Paul commends them to “God and to the word of His grace” (Acts 20:28-32). It is Scripture that was to be the infallible measuring stick for teaching and practice (2 Timothy 3:16-17), not apostolic successors. It is by examining the Scriptures that teachings are shown to be true or false (Acts 17:10-12).

Was Peter the first pope? The answer, according to Scripture, is a clear and emphatic “no.” Peter nowhere claims supremacy over the other apostles. Nowhere in his writings (1 and 2 Peter) did the Apostle Peter claim any special role, authority, or power over the church. Nowhere in Scripture does Peter, or any other apostle, state that their apostolic authority would be passed on to successors. Yes, the Apostle Peter had a leadership role among the disciples. Yes, Peter played a crucial role in the early spread of the gospel (Acts chapters 1-10). Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18). However, these truths about Peter in no way give support to the concept that Peter was the first pope, or that he was the “supreme leader” over the apostles, or that his authority would be passed on to the bishops of Rome. Peter himself points us all to the true Shepherd and Overseer of the church, the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Peter 2:25).

Thedictator · Sep 15, 2017

Major1 said:
You said.........
"The truth is that the Word of God actually says that Baptism is need for salvation".

Please post the Scriptures which say that salvation comes by being baptized.

No problem, this is what the Bible actually says about Baptism and Salvation:

1. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved ...
2. 1 Peter 3:21 and this water(the flood)symbolizes Baptism that now saves you ...
3. 1 Peter 3:21 It (baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. How does it does it do this? Romans 6 tells us that.
4. Romans 6:3-4 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father we too may live a new life (salvation)
(baptism lets us participate in the gospel of Salvation, the Death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.)
5. Acts 2:37-38 ...Brothers what shall we do to be saved? Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name (Authority) of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (salvation) ( sins must be forgiven by God before one can be saved. ) and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
6. John 3:5 ...I tell you the truth no one can enter the kingdom of God (Salvation) unless he is born of water (baptism) and the spirit.
7. Ephesians 5:26 To make her (the church) holy (salvation) (holiness is needed for salvation) cleansing her by the washing with water (baptism) though the word... (or by the authority of the Bible)
8. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body (salvation) ( so when we are being baptized by water it is the Spirit of God who is also baptizing us)

There are a lot more verses but this will do for now. One can believe in man made denominations or one can believe in the Word of God, I choose to believe in the Word of God, belief in denominational teachings leads to death, but belief in the Word of God leads to life.

Thedictator · Sep 15, 2017

Major1 said:
That simply is not true.

We are baptized by the Holy Spirit when we are saved and that is an act of God.

When we are baptized with water, that is some WE DO and it is actually an act of good works.

Please show me in the Bible where it says that Baptism is a good work? For a work to be a good work it must benefit someone other than you. Now the Baptizer is do a good work, but the one who is being Baptized is not doing a good work.

The person who is being baptized is having an act done to him, he is passive in the action being done. It is the Baptizer ( a man and God ) who are the one's being active in the action. Please tell me what you think what active action the one who is being baptized is doing? Baptism is an act of faith (given by God, by the authority of God) it is apart of real faith it is alive faith, not death faith that denominations teach.

Thedictator · Sep 15, 2017

Winken said:
Precisely. I've read this entire thread. Unbelievable how scripture can be twisted! It was mandatory in Judaism to be water baptized so that they could greet the promised Jewish Messiah --- that's before they met Him.
Water was incorporated into Jewish religion. John came baptizing in water.

No one is baptized in water in order to receive Jesus as Savior since the Cross. Jesus fulfilled, completed, every requirement of Law. Once that was accomplished ANYONE on the face of the earth could confess Him as Savior, no strings attached! God's assurance of eternal security upon one's confession did not come with "if" you do thus and so.

How many years will non-Christians and Christians waste fighting over such a straight-forward Truth?!!

And yet the Bible teaches something other than your man made denominational teaching of just confession.

Thedictator · Sep 15, 2017

Major1 said:
Yes, a saved should want to be baptized as an outward sign of an inward change in their life.

Where does it say that in the Bible?

Thedictator · Sep 15, 2017

jaison jose said:
Yes, Peter was the “rock” that Christ predicted he would be (Matthew 16:18).

Peter is not the rock that Jesus build the Church on, it was the statement that Peter said that Jesus built the Church on.

Major1 · Sep 15, 2017

Thedictator said:
Where does it say that in the Bible?

“An outward sign of an inward grace” is not in the Bible.

It is simply something that I believe takes place in someone who has been saved and follows in baptism, not because he has to but because he wants to.

Major1 · Sep 15, 2017

Thedictator said:
Peter is not the rock that Jesus build the Church on, it was the statement that Peter said that Jesus built the Church on.

That is absolutely correct.

Major1 · Sep 15, 2017

Thedictator said:
Please show me in the Bible where it says that Baptism is a good work? For a work to be a good work it must benefit someone other than you. Now the Baptizer is do a good work, but the one who is being Baptized is not doing a good work.

The person who is being baptized is having an act done to him, he is passive in the action being done. It is the Baptizer ( a man and God ) who are the one's being active in the action. Please tell me what you think what active action the one who is being baptized is doing? Baptism is an act of faith (given by God, by the authority of God) it is apart of real faith it is alive faith, not death faith that denominations teach.

Actually I am a little surprised that you would need to ask that question.

However, If you did not know it allow me to post it foe you In Ephesians 2:8 it specifically says we are not save by works; salvation is.............
“by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest anyone should boast.”

A work is something we physically do.

A work is something that is physically done to accomplish a task, which is seen. Belief, faith is exercised without lifting a finger. The Bible emphatically states that we are not saved by works. If we were, we would surely boast in ourselves, just as it says in Ephesians 2:10

So then, Is baptism considered a work? Absolutely. Another person is required to be there, and both participate in a physical activity; it is a ceremony. In the Old Testament people’s sins were covered by faith, but they had to do a work with their faith in order to show their faith - they had to sacrifice.

Forgiveness from God and reconciliation with Him involved a blood sacrifice. A person bought an animal to the high priest, as a mediator he would then sacrifice the animal to the Lord. In the New Testament Jesus, our high priest has done this for us and we only need to exercise faith in his one time act.

Baptism is a physical work of man, this is why is not part of the gospel that says we are save by grace through faith. In other words we depend on what work another did for us to be saved, God through Christ. Faith is what the heart and mind agree on, what Jesus did already for us. We trust in His work for us.

Mountainmike · Sep 15, 2017

Why are you obsessed with attacking RCC,instead of pursuing your own salvation?
Look for the beam in your own eye first!

The answer to all of your questions lies in refusal to study or understand Christian history and that tradition was the means of doctrinal passage that preceded New Testament by centuries. So your assumption of sola scriptura is false, all truth is not in scripture, easily proven so, and that is why you fail to find it.

Acts 2:38 shows his attitude to baptism, and other texts show the importance of it. So we can reasnably assume Peter was baptised, since he was certainly no hypocrite, and whether or not he was does not diminish the necessity for others.

Major1 said:
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that one must be baptized in order to be saved.

I believe that we should want to be baptized because we are saved and water baptism is not a part of being saved.

Now in thinking about this, I tried to find a Bible verse which tells us when Peter was baptized.
You see, the RCC claims Peter as their 1st Pope and the thought occurred to me that if we go with the RCC teaching that a man must be baptized in order to be saved and their 1st Pope has no record of baptism then according to their own teaching, Peter would not have been saved.

Now wouldn't that be a hoot????

Someone will try to use John 14 to say that that event was baptism. NO friends that will not work at all so please save us the argument over it. John 14 IS NOT baptism but is "Foot washing" and the context and exegesis is not about immersion for the cleansing of sin and salvation in any way.

Who is going to explain this?

Winken · Sep 15, 2017

Thedictator said:
And yet the Bible teaches something other than your man made denominational teaching of just confession.

Well.......... I'm not a member of "any denomination"; my "teaching" is Spiritually inspired by the one and only Holy Spirit. Only HE provides Spiritual interpretation and application. It is sad how many step outside of that Truth to formulate a personal POV.

Be strong in the Lord, in the Power of HIS Might.

Major1 · Sep 15, 2017

Thedictator said:
No problem, this is what the Bible actually says about Baptism and Salvation:

1. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved ...
2. 1 Peter 3:21 and this water(the flood)symbolizes Baptism that now saves you ...
3. 1 Peter 3:21 It (baptism) saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ. How does it does it do this? Romans 6 tells us that.
4. Romans 6:3-4 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the father we too may live a new life (salvation)
(baptism lets us participate in the gospel of Salvation, the Death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus.)
5. Acts 2:37-38 ...Brothers what shall we do to be saved? Peter replied, Repent and be baptized, every one of you in the name (Authority) of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins (salvation) ( sins must be forgiven by God before one can be saved. ) and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
6. John 3:5 ...I tell you the truth no one can enter the kingdom of God (Salvation) unless he is born of water (baptism) and the spirit.
7. Ephesians 5:26 To make her (the church) holy (salvation) (holiness is needed for salvation) cleansing her by the washing with water (baptism) though the word... (or by the authority of the Bible)
8. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body (salvation) ( so when we are being baptized by water it is the Spirit of God who is also baptizing us)

There are a lot more verses but this will do for now. One can believe in man made denominations or one can believe in the Word of God, I choose to believe in the Word of God, belief in denominational teachings leads to death, but belief in the Word of God leads to life.

Now do you really believe that every one of those verses says that man must be baptized to be saved??

Mark 16:16 is of course the most popular verse used by those like yourself who believe in water baptism is need to be saved.............

This verse does not say that baptism is a requirement for salvation. Let me show you why. I could easily say that he who believes and goes to church will be saved. That is true. But it is belief that saves - not belief and going to church.

Belief in what God has done on the cross as a sacrifice and not what man can do by believing and getting baptized is what results in salvation. Baptism is simply a public demonstration of the inner work of regeneration. This is why the rest of the verse says, "...but he who does not believe will be condemned." Mark 16:16 focuses on the issue of belief - not baptism. Notice that it does not say that he who is not baptized will not be saved. It never says that anywhere in scripture.

1 Peter 3:21..............
Thankfully, though, we don’t have to guess at what Peter means in this verse because he clarifies that for us with the phrase “not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience.”

While Peter is connecting baptism with salvation, it is not the act of being baptized that he is referring to (not the removal of dirt from the flesh). Being immersed in water does nothing but wash away dirt. What Peter is referring to is what baptism represents, which is what saves us (an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ). In other words, Peter is simply connecting baptism with belief. It is not the getting-wet part that saves but is the “appeal to God for a clean conscience” which is signified by baptism, that saves us. The appeal to God always comes first. First belief and repentance, then we are baptized to publicly identify ourselves with Christ.

Romans 6:3-5...............
The New Testament teaches conclusively that,
(1) water baptism always follows conversion and,
(2) salvation is totally the work of God's grace appropriated by faith (Eph. 2:8-9, Romans 4:5).

If the baptism here is water baptism, Paul is absolutely not saying that the rite of baptism itself puts one into Christ or is necessary for salvation.

Baptism is a symbolic rite symbolizing the believer's identification with the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ. In the preceding Chapter Paul makes it plain in 5:20.......
" . . . But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound" .

The subject of chapter 6:1 concerns the appropriation of grace. By definition, grace is the bestowment of God's unmerited favor to the sinner, therefore, baptism is a work or rite. Salvation is solely received by God's grace through faith, apart from any work or merit of man, and therefore cannot be a sacrament. The passage is not teaching baptismal regeneration.

Biblically water baptism is not a sacrament but is a symbol of the "believer's union with Christ and is illustrated by the rite of baptism in the mode of immersion. The three actions therein are symbolic: into the water - death; under the water - burial; out of the water - resurrection.

Acts 2:37-38.............
As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism which is exactly what Eph. 2:8-9 clearly tells us.

So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation.

The grammatical evidence surrounding Acts 2:37-38 verse and the Greek preposition eis is clear that the view on this verse is well within the context and the range of possible meanings of the passage, the majority of the evidence then is in favor that the best possible definition of the word “for” in this context is either “because of” or “in regard to” and not “in order to get.”

Therefore, Acts 2:38, when interpreted correctly, does not teach that baptism is required for salvation.

Ephesians 5:26.............
God is sanctifying the church with the WATER OF THE WORD my friend. The cleanser is the Bible which is better than bleach. The Word of God will not only take out the dirty spots but it will help us to satay clean as we move through the filth of this world.

Water can not do that. The BLOOD of Jesus Christ is the only thing that can make a black hearted sinner white as snow.

John 3:5.............
IF "Born of water and of the Spirit" is a reference to water baptism, that would make this a very strange expression.

Jesus is talking about HOW a man could be born "FROM ABOVE" or better said "BORN AGAIN".

Do you really think, deep down in your heart that being wet in a dirty river or a swimming pool can do that. Do really think that is what God is saying?????????

No my brother, Jesus is NOT saying that at all. If you read John chapter TWO you will se that he is telling is that "Water" is symbolic of the "WORD OF GOD".

John 17:17 confirms that.......
"Sanctify them through truth: THY WORD IS TRUTH".

John 15:3 says.......
Now ye are clean through the WORD which I have spoken to you".

I am saying without any reservation here that the phrase "Born of water and the Spirit" means that a person must be born again by the Holy Spirit using the Scripture which is the Word of God.

Romans 17:10.......
"Then faith comes by hearing and hearing by the WORD of God".

I do not normally do such long posts and I apologize for the length of this one. But it seems to me from some of the posts made, that several people needed to be exposed to the correct exegesis of the Word of God.

So thanks for the response and the opportunity to present the Word of God to all.

Was Peter Baptized?

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