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Was Abraham 'born again' ?

kffarley

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Hi folks,
I wonder if you could comment on the following as our Bible Study group is studying Nicodemus' encounter with Jesus.
Question : Was Abraham 'born again' ?
What might be the reasoning if someone were to say 'Yes' ?
ie. why would they say 'Yes' ? Why would they not say 'No' ?

What might be the reasoning if someone were to say 'No' ?
ie. Why would they say 'No' ? Why would they not say 'Yes' ?

Note : This is an honest question, thanks
Kerry
 

thankfulttt

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Of course Abraham was born again. The Word of God came to him (Genesis 15:1), and he believed (Genesis 15:6) and it was accounted to him for righteousness. In other words, Abraham put on God's righteousness and that is what it takes to be born again. Jesus said, "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day; and he saw it, and was glad." (John 8:56).

I would also comment that Job was a physical picture of the spiritual rebirth as presented in John 3. Nicodemus said can an old man come out from his mother's womb a second time. Job was an old man, whose flesh was wrinkled and aged. Yet his flesh became fresher than a child's after he repented, and clothed himself in God's righteousness.

Terry
 
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kffarley

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kffarley

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Terry,
Thanks for your reply.
Yes, I stated in the group that 'Yes, he was born again..' and expressed so.
However, the group leader disagreed, so no further discussion ensued :-(
I don't know if you would like to comment on the 2nd part to my question :-

What might be the reasoning if someone were to say 'No' ? (ie. No, he wasn't born again)
ie. Why would they say 'No' ? Why would they not say 'Yes' ?

regards,
Kerry
 
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thankfulttt

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There are those that believe that salvation came in some different form in the Old Testament, other than Jesus Christ. Some people do not see the working of Jesus in the Old Testament, but without having a direct answer from the group leader there is no way to satisfactorily answer this question. If they don't believe salvation came from Jesus than it had to be works. Personal works never saved anyone.
 
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Crowns&Laurels

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Being 'born again' is as the old you dying and a new you arising.

'Born again' is ultimately synonymous to faith without works, as works are just the smoke from faith's flame- it is by faith that the resurrection takes place in the first place, which means to save, and not by works.

This is the true essence of the salvific teaching, and the harmony between Paul and James. If you want to know how this teaching got so misconstrued in the first place, all one has to do is ask themselves what motives the archaic church would have to want to proclaim works apart from faith as a salvific requirement..
 
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Chicken Little

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I say No that option was not offered to him until after Jesus died.
but Jesus knew that day would come and could Give Abraham credits on a reservation for a trip out of Abrahams Bosom.

after Abraham salvation was offered to the whole nation at the mount but they didn't want salvation through relationship , seem they wanted instant rewards and religion because they couldn't fast or go without sex three days in a fast in order to meet him and be purified by him. they didn't want to go up and meet him like Moses did.

so the law is also a kind of divorce papers from personal relationship . it is for religion and servitude and that is not about a holy family of bonded faithful relationships. the religion of temple sacrifices etc.. it was about instant rewards like rain and protection for the year( only) if He excepted the sacrifices.
but Abrahams faith was about Bonded relationships past or higher than the laws of servitude and religion . Faith born out the faithfulness of relationship. to love God has been since Adam the same deal , a faithfulness of and to the relationship.
Adam wasn't faithful to his relationships . Abraham had all the credits of faithfulness needed when the time came for God to
redeem/ buy him from death and hell. His faithfulness was to his relationship with God.. this was the credits needed to count him righteous. but salvation didn't actually come until Yeshua died to buy him from death.
 
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thankfulttt

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Jesus had not yet died on the cross when he told Nicodemus that he had to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus also implied that Nicodemus should have known this, because he was a leader of Israel.
 
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Chicken Little

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Jesus had not yet died on the cross when he told Nicodemus that he had to be born again to enter the kingdom of God. Jesus also implied that Nicodemus should have known this, because he was a leader of Israel.
then if faithfulness in a family/bonded relationship with the God of Abraham / the Moses is the only salvation( from Egypt and everything it represents , from the constant usurping to the slavery to strange gods), then he was telling Nicodemus that Nicodemus was not in a faithful relationship with the God of Abraham..... not born of the right family tree ( which is through him and always had been )....thus no credits either towards being deemed
"righteous" if there is no connection to the tree of life/ source of life .

but the tree of knowledge of what we deem "good and evil " grows with out roots or connections to anything see? it has it's own family also. they all kind of " do what they will" they can do anyhting and live anyway with no connections , no roots and love no nothing.


He is saying we have to be born of connection to him and only to him and faithful to that " family" relationship or there is no salvation for anyone for any other reason .
We have to know that we can born of a
church and be a servant of God and be blessed in this life .
and it will rain on our crops if we forgive etc. just like the law provides .
but to blessed in the next age ( kingdom age ) is only from faithful family relationship without him is impossible. if you don't go up the mountain, you won't go up the mountain.
it has nothing to do with faithful commitments to a building or a belief or doctrines .
because trust me when I say he will rattle your beliefs , and everything that can be shaken will be shaken. because judgement starts first with the true house of God. which is your heart.

Jhn 3:5

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Jhn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


THEN

Jhn 19:38


And after this Joseph of Arimathaea, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
Jhn 19:39

And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight.
Jhn 19:40

Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
Jhn 19:41

Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
Jhn 19:42

There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.



SEE he GOT it ! he made the connections in his head . and then made the connection with his will and then did . He figured it out some place in there .. see he came to bury his relation, his family , he gave so much for his cousin(kinsmen redeemer). Who was also his Lord and redeemer but for mostly only ' his relation'. because he didn't know if Jesus would raise. He was just making a connection to a relationship and being faithful to that connection to 'The Faithful Son' of David . He was Sure Jesus was that and he wanted to be connected to that. be Jesus raised now or not. the lamb at passover didn't raise from the dead every year!
 
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Chicken Little

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Jhn 7:49

But this people who knoweth not the law are cursed.
Jhn 7:50

Nicodemus saith unto them, (he that came to Jesus by night, being one of them,)
Jhn 7:51

Doth our law judge any man, before it hear him, and know what he doeth?
Jhn 7:52

They answered and said unto him, Art thou also of Galilee? Search, and look: for out of Galilee ariseth no prophet.



Here is where Pharisee kept erring , yes Jesus grew up in Galilee but a hidden truth was Jesus was OF Bethlehem and there was prophesy about Bethlehem.

when did Nicodemus figure this part out ? surely he knew Jesus was not of Galilee because he was Of Galilee , but Jesus was just raised there.

there is always hidden truth that we can only know by a relationship / connections to him.
 
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