Validating the bible

Bork said:

Last night I watched the movie "23". The basis of the movie is pretty much how one man obsesses over the number 23, often seeing it where it doesn't belong. For example, say he lives at 1112 Fake Rd., he would claim 11 + 12= 23.

Well, this had me thinking about the Bible. I often wonder if people give the Bible more meaning than it deserves. Now, I am open to the idea that the Bible is much deeper than I understand, however, I am aware of the possibility that Bible is simply a collection of books that have been given a divine meaning by people. I feel like I can look into any book and derive some truth to it, even deep philosophical truth. Even worse, I can pick up a book on historical fiction and do the same... making historical fiction appear as if it is true. Honestly, this is not a pleasant thought- so, how do you rationalize the Bible as being the word of God? In other words, why is the bible superior to other books? Why trust the bible? I hope my questions and thoughts are clear.

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Divinity and Timelessness.

Hope this Helps.

God Bless

Key

Bork said:

Last night I watched the movie "23". The basis of the movie is pretty much how one man obsesses over the number 23, often seeing it where it doesn't belong. For example, say he lives at 1112 Fake Rd., he would claim 11 + 12= 23.

Well, this had me thinking about the Bible. I often wonder if people give the Bible more meaning than it deserves.

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Of course, some people do exactly that - eg so called Bible Codes.

Now, I am open to the idea that the Bible is much deeper than I understand, however, I am aware of the possibility that Bible is simply a collection of books that have been given a divine meaning by people. I feel like I can look into any book and derive some truth to it, even deep philosophical truth. Even worse, I can pick up a book on historical fiction and do the same... making historical fiction appear as if it is true. Honestly, this is not a pleasant thought- so, how do you rationalize the Bible as being the word of God? In other words, why is the bible superior to other books? Why trust the bible? I hope my questions and thoughts are clear.

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Because the Holy Spirit has lead the Church into deciding that the bible has a particular role within God's revelation to us.

Bork said:

How does this seperate it from any other book? I am sure the book 1984 will be just as timeless 2000 years from now as it is today.

The answer "divinity and timelessness" doesn't help me, as a muslim/Hindu/ etc tellls me the same thing...

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It seems you have no idea how "timeless" is applied.. the Book 1984 went of timelessness in 1985. It was a book written to express what the "future" might bring, as such, when the Future arrived, the book, became not only incorrect, but equally so, out of date.

Now, if you would like to know more, you can ask in a civil manner, with the heart of a Seeker, or you can just prop up objections and somewhat snide commentary, if you opt to the later, I shall opt to just leave you to your own conclusions, and allow you to carry on your merry way.

God Bless

Key

Bork said:

It seems to me thatr the holy spirit can endwell any entity- eg Balaam and his Donkey. I have heard it often said that the holy spirit made the donkey talk... where is this spirit for me?

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I can't answer that for you. Maybe he has, but you didn't hear him. Maybe he is now. Maybe he will in the future.

Why no miracles?

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I presume you mean "why haven't I witnessed any miracles?" Maybe you have, but didn't recongnise them as such. One of the problems with "miracles" is that if one defines miracle as being "out of the ordinary" then (by definition) you won't see them very often. On the other hand, if one recognises the miraculous in the common-place then it's just a question of recognising the miracle of the birth of a new human life, or the miracle of every sacrament (baptism, holy communion...).

I often hear Jesus is a personal God... than why does he not talk to me?

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See above.

The very fact that you are questioning the inspiration of the bible means that you have separated it from other writings, and that you have at least some desire to validate it.

I suggest that you don't look to the bible for the proof you seek, but look to the creation; that is the biological earth. More specifically study yourself; your body, mind, thoughts, etc. If you can determine that you were indeed created and not evolved you are on a good track. If you have already accepted evolution as your origin then I suggest you find a different interest as you will just drive yourself nuts trying to reconcile these two opposing positions.

You should see the biblical numerologists! And Kabbalists (not the ones who sell water).

The Bible is a fascinating book, and many of us find new insights in old verses every day. I suspect there is a lot more we could find by digging deeper.

Ebia mentioned the Bible codes...that's a sore subject among many Christians, as Michael Drosnin's second book got a little flaky and he tried to predict things. But I think you would enjoy skimming over parts of his first Bible Code book.

The probability calculations are amazing... I think you'll find more of that in Grant Jeffrey's Handwriting of God... that's heavier reading.

Why no miracles?

I often hear Jesus is a personal God... than why does he not talk to me? I try to listen, I looks for signs, but atlast, I feel pessimistic on the actual existance of God....

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I find it makes a big difference who I hang out with -- if I surround myself with people who believe in astounding things, then I see great things happen. If I stay in a church of quiet, faithfully devoted believers, then I see quiet devotion.

People often get what they ask for. Some people prefer God to be less demonstrative, and some cry out for miracles.

But keep yourself focused on how you believe one should live life. If you were to look back on a friend thirty years from now, would you want people to say they were involved in great miracles, were connected well with God, did some very considerate things for others, wrote the wisest book.... you would want to hear something real and earnest and deep about them.

So start there. Be honest with God, and make your prayers more of a discussion than a list. Tell Him what you think should happen and why... tell Him you'd like to see more miracles, and you'd like to connect with people who know more about that.

It's okay to be blunt and honest. Better than to assume He doesn't want to hear that, then wonder why He didn't deliver. Just think out loud with Him.

.

Bork--

Because there is overwhelming that supports it. It has nothing to do with any obsessions. The Bible is true like the law of gravity or thermodynamics. Its true independent of what we feel or think.

Biblical Evidence (Scratching the Surface Only)

Internal Evidences
Prophesies that are confirmed within Bible

- Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Luke's time period is 60-70 AD)

Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 -Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60-70 AD)

Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14/Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(60-70 AD)

**I can list at least 20 more of these.
-Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of the dream of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20) and a fourth great kingdom to follow - part iron and clay - which is the Roman Empire - during this empire Christ came and the church was established - Daniel 2:44.

-Historical Accuracy
The Bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago, yet has not been proven incorrect on any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament - starts at 25 years - between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years

Number of Manuscript Copies
New Testament - 5,686
Homer - 643
Demosthenes - 200
Plato - 7
Caesar - 10

Consistency
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years, and has no internal inconsistencies.

Claim of Inspiration
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Tim 3:16-17). No other religious book makes such claims.

External Evidences
(Prophesies Outside the Bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never be built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22)
Tyre (Ezekiel 26:1-28)

Bible before Science
He hangs the earth on nothing - Job 26:7
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago - some scholars think it could be even 3000 years ago)
Note: Man only knew this for 350 years
Earth is a sphere, Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight, Job 28:25
Gravity - Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33
Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6

Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles

Archealogoical Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

Also, read Evidence Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell ( it would stand up in a court of law). And Examine the Evidence by Muncaster (a former athiest).