Us and who else?

Tenka · Dec 9, 2005

Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?

In recent history (geologically speaking) we have shared this planet with close cousins, Homo florensis and Homo neanderthalis. What do you make of them? Blatant frauds? Uncannily human-like animals? 'Ensouled' proto-humans?

SH89 · Dec 9, 2005

Tenka said:
Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?

Animals have souls.

Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

EvoDan · Dec 9, 2005

Tenka said:
Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?

Good question...

They were animals, just like us.

elman · Dec 9, 2005

SH89 said:
Animals have souls.

Who knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and the spirit of the animal, which goes down to the earth? (Ecclesiastes 3:21)

I don't think that shows animals have souls.

elman · Dec 9, 2005

Tenka said:
Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?

In recent history (geologically speaking) we have shared this planet with close cousins, Homo florensis and Homo neanderthalis. What do you make of them? Blatant frauds? Uncannily human-like animals? 'Ensouled' proto-humans?

Were they able to be loving toward each other beyond the instinctive love of a mother for her offspring? If so, I think they had souls. Who were the florensis?

gwenmead · Dec 9, 2005

I don't know whether anybody has a soul or not. But if we do I wouldn't see any reason why Neanderthals or any other long-dead cousins of homo sapiens sapiens (that bein' us, fully modern humans) wouldn't have had one. Neanders were homo sapiens too - human, though different in significant ways from us.

As to the question of whether they showed love - well, the debate rages. It's entirely possible. A Neander burial in Shanidar cave, Iraq, shows 7 or 8 different kinds of flowers in the grave along with the body. This could be random - wind blowing local pollen around, perhaps - or could be evidence that the people of this person's group cared enough about them to mark their grave with flowers, as we do today.

The book Neanderthal by Paul Jordan tells the story of our hominid cousins quite well. Fwiw.

stumpjumper · Dec 9, 2005

Technically in Genesis it only says that God made man a living soul. The whole idea of body/soul dualism is greek philosophy not Hebrew philosophy and not really stressed by the Bible. According to ancient Jewish philosophy, a part of us lives on in Sheol but they did not have the same concept of a "soul" that we do.

If consciousness is an emergent phenomena then it is possible that so is the consciousness that lives on and continues to be us after we die. I have heard even Daniel Dennet (a strict materialist) argue that lower animals do not have consciousness. I tend to think he's full of it anyway

I don't know.

CaligulaNero · Dec 9, 2005

"Were they able to be loving toward each other beyond the instinctive love of a mother for her offspring? If so, I think they had souls."

If that's your criteria then dogs have souls and men do not.

elijah115 · Dec 9, 2005

anything we say in this thread is speculatory

Athene · Dec 9, 2005

gwenmead said:
The book Neanderthal by Paul Jordan tells the story of our hominid cousins quite well. Fwiw.

I heard that the Neaderthal died out because our ancestors hunted them and ate them, is that true?

Soul_Searcher · Dec 9, 2005

Hi Tenka,

"Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?"

Why wouldn't they have souls? Why wouldn't animals have souls?

"In recent history (geologically speaking) we have shared this planet with close cousins, Homo florensis and Homo neanderthalis. What do you make of them? Blatant frauds? Uncannily human-like animals? 'Ensouled' proto-humans?"

They are beings just like us.

TheNewAge · Dec 9, 2005

Soul_Searcher said:
Hi Tenka,

"Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?"

Why wouldn't they have souls? Why wouldn't animals have souls?

"In recent history (geologically speaking) we have shared this planet with close cousins, Homo florensis and Homo neanderthalis. What do you make of them? Blatant frauds? Uncannily human-like animals? 'Ensouled' proto-humans?"

They are beings just like us.

One has to wonder then, why does the Bible claim that animals have souls, yet God has shown such calous disregard for them throughout the Bible?

trase · Dec 9, 2005

Tenka said:
Did Neanderthals have souls or were they just animals?

In recent history (geologically speaking) we have shared this planet with close cousins, Homo florensis and Homo neanderthalis. What do you make of them? Blatant frauds? Uncannily human-like animals? 'Ensouled' proto-humans?

Theology 101

1- Spirit and soul are NOT the same

2-Only beings capable of conscious thought can have souls

3-Conscious thought=free will=eternal survival, if desired

Animals don't have souls !!

MQTA · Dec 9, 2005

stumpjumper said:
Technically in Genesis it only says that God made man a living soul.

Oh, so that means nothing else could possibly be the real reality and truth? That's a little human focused, of course we can claim that, but is it true?

When you look into the eyes of another human, and then look into the eyes of any other living creature, do you not see an essence of life not unsimilar?

The whole idea of body/soul dualism is greek philosophy not Hebrew philosophy and not really stressed by the Bible. According to ancient Jewish philosophy, a part of us lives on in Sheol but they did not have the same concept of a "soul" that we do.

If consciousness is an emergent phenomena then it is possible that so is the consciousness that lives on and continues to be us after we die. I have heard even Daniel Dennet (a strict materialist) argue that lower animals do not have consciousness. I tend to think he's full of it anyway

I don't know.

I just finished watching March of the Penguins. I don't think humans of a lock on, well, very much of anything. We just Think we do. All other creatures are living out their purpose, all we do is argue over theirs and ours.

MQTA · Dec 9, 2005

trase said:
Theology 101

1- Spirit and soul are NOT the same

2-Only beings capable of conscious thought can have souls

3-Conscious thought=free will=eternal survival, if desired

Animals don't have souls !!

Soul = Mind, Body, Spirit.

Mind/Body = any question there?

Spirit = Instinct/Subconscious/Autonomic systems

All living things have Mind, Body, and Spirit.

Mind/Body/Spirt = Soul

All creatures Are Souls, all have their Trinity

MQTA · Dec 9, 2005

TheNewAge said:
One has to wonder then, why does the Bible claim that animals have souls, yet God has shown such calous disregard for them throughout the Bible?

"They're just pawns to help the story along"

Arkanin · Dec 9, 2005

If consciousness is an emergent phenomena then it is possible that so is the consciousness that lives on and continues to be us after we die. I have heard even Daniel Dennet (a strict materialist) argue that lower animals do not have consciousness. I tend to think he's full of it anyway

I don't know.

If what you mean is 'do animals have qualia', there is no way for us to answer that question since we are not animals.

In any other meaningful sense, it seems fair to say that animals have consciousness (they're certainly reasonably smart, and they're aware of their surroundings). So I'm not quite sure why he said that.

MQTA · Dec 9, 2005

Arkanin said:
If what you mean is 'do animals have qualia', there is no way for us to answer that question since we are not animals.

In any other meaningful sense, it seems fair to say that animals have consciousness (they're certainly reasonably smart, and they're aware of their surroundings). So I'm not quite sure why he said that.

One of my 4 cats responds to my sneezes. She meows similarly every time. So I asked her if she was a living soul with a mind and spirt inside that furry body. She meowed and purred.

I'll take her meow for it.

trase · Dec 10, 2005

MQTA said:
trase :Theology 101

1- Spirit and soul are NOT the same

2-Only beings capable of conscious thought can have souls

3-Conscious thought=free will=eternal survival, if desired

Animals don't have souls !!

Click to expand...

Soul = Mind, Body, Spirit.

Mind/Body = any question there?

Spirit = Instinct/Subconscious/Autonomic systems

All living things have Mind, Body, and Spirit.

Mind/Body/Spirt = Soul

All creatures Are Souls, all have their Trinity

[/quote]

Not quiet !! The word "spirit" denotes God and God is NOT an instinct. God The Father gives a part of himself (spirit ) to any conscious being, to help them in attaining Heaven. Animals have been on this Earth a lot longer than humans and yet there is no evidence, whatsoever, that they have grown spiritually. Man, on the other hand, has been around for about 1 million years and there is plenty of evidence that we are growing spiritually. If everything has spirit and soul, why haven't they progressed ?

MQTA · Dec 10, 2005

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