• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Universe is not homogeneous as far as we know

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,754
52,545
Guam
✟5,134,609.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
I doubt that earth laws and forces and light and space exist across the universe. Anyone have proof they do?
I doubt they do.

The Bible speaks of God having stretched the universe, but notice this:

Isaiah 42:5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

The verb is past tense -- as if it is already done; yet Doppler & Hubble confirm that the universe is still expanding.

So how do we reconcile this?

Easily -- I take it God stretched the universe to what it actually is, and He did so in a moment of time; much, much, much faster than the speed of light, so that now the physical universe is expanding into this void.

Boyle's Law should confirm this -- (I think).
 
Upvote 0

Nostromo

Brian Blessed can take a hike
Nov 19, 2009
2,343
56
Yorkshire
✟25,338.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I doubt that earth laws and forces and light and space exist across the universe. Anyone have proof they do?
What's the point in asking? Whenever somebody comes back with evidence for something you wave it away with your different state nonsense.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I might agree if I thought the universe was expanding. That all depends on redshift. (basically) Blue and redshift depend on C (light or earth state light). So expansion is based upon the speed and nature of light in the unknown deep space being what it is here.

The reason I started the thread was because I posted in an astronomy forum, and came upon mods that were evo pit bulls, and it looked like fair discussion would be impossible. This thread is basically a back up plan, in case (when) that thread gets closed

So if anyone does show up from there, they would be somewhat 'experts'. Could be fun..
 
Upvote 0

SithDoughnut

The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
Jan 2, 2010
9,118
306
The Death Starbucks
✟25,974.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
I doubt that earth laws and forces and light and space exist across the universe. Anyone have proof they do?

Things stay the same unless something causes them to change. Unless you can demonstrate something that would change the laws of physics, the only logical conclusion is that they remain the same.
 
Upvote 0

AV1611VET

SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE
Site Supporter
Jun 18, 2006
3,855,754
52,545
Guam
✟5,134,609.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
The reason I started the thread was because I posted in an astronomy forum, and came upon mods that were evo pit bulls, and it looked like fair discussion would be impossible.
That's nothing more than scientists showing their true colors.

Here at CF, scientists have to put on an air of tolerance* toward us Christians -- but outside, in Egypt, their true colors show.

* Usually they get around that 'filter' by hiding their ridicule behind question marks.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Yes. Amazing to me. Like teachers trying to keep kids in the dark...and ban any voices that want to look at what is really known.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Things stay the same unless something causes them to change. Unless you can demonstrate something that would change the laws of physics, the only logical conclusion is that they remain the same.

In the case of the far far far away universe, in order to keep things the same, they need to be the same to start with. This is a thread to explore whether we know that. I must admit, with spectral lines, and various bits of info man does have, it would be easy to jump to the conclusion that all is the same. However, God is in the details.
 
Upvote 0

SithDoughnut

The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
Jan 2, 2010
9,118
306
The Death Starbucks
✟25,974.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private

There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have ever changed.
 
Upvote 0

Incariol

Newbie
Apr 22, 2011
5,710
251
✟7,523.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Democrat
There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have ever changed.

But if there was, it might make their beliefs slightly less impossible, so its fun to pretend that such is the case and that the big bad scientists are suppressing The Truth(TM).
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have ever changed.
There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have existed at all as we know them.

So, when you look out in space, remember that. You thought gravity caused lensing effect??? Think again. You thought that ammonia out there had to be in our state, or light or anything?? Think again. You thought space was the same? Ha.

It's all a temporary 'illusion' in a sense. Oh, there are stars etc out there, but how far away we don't know. How big..? Nope. Composition? Nope. Distance? Nope. You don't know what you thought you knew.

--subject to evidence of course
 
Upvote 0

SithDoughnut

The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
Jan 2, 2010
9,118
306
The Death Starbucks
✟25,974.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have existed at all as we know them.

The lack of things that would change the laws of physics suggest that the laws of physics did not change. In this case, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence. We've can physically see back in time by looking further and further away, and everything has been following the laws of physics as we know it. If something had changed, we would see it.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
The lack of things that would change the laws of physics suggest that the laws of physics did not change.

Firstly, you have no idea whatsoever what was changed to leave us with current laws. Remember it was not a change IN our laws

There is a thought experiment that can illustrate the concept.

A certain man had several collections of fish. As time went by, and fish died, he replaced them, sometimes with the same kind, and sometimes with other kinds. One day the man moved and his collection was of course also moved. Some new fish were purchased for one tank, as some of the former inhabitants had died.


If one of the new fish asked itself about the little world it lived in, it would have to go by the tank it lived in. How close it was to the window, or lamps nearby..etc. All of the observations and conclusions it reached would be of limited value.

In fact, the tank was not even in the same state or county it was made in. The water was not the same water. The room was not the same. The climate outside the hose was not the same...etc.



In this case, absence of evidence is indeed evidence of absence.
False, as in the above experiment. You should not expect evidence in the fishbowl for anything else but how life is there now.

We've can physically see back in time by looking further and further away, and everything has been following the laws of physics as we know it.
That is only assumed. What you are really seeing is likely far far different than what you thought. This thread is about what we really know.


If something had changed, we would see it.
No more than the fish.
 
Upvote 0

Split Rock

Conflation of Blathers
Nov 3, 2003
17,607
730
North Dakota
✟22,466.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
There is nothing to suggest that the laws of physics have existed at all as we know them.
What if I came up with a bible quote?
How about this one?
James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."

So, when you look out in space, remember that. You thought gravity caused lensing effect??? Think again. You thought that ammonia out there had to be in our state, or light or anything?? Think again. You thought space was the same? Ha.
Ha, Ha, HA! Nothing we see is true. Only dad the Prophet knows, and he ain't tell'in!


It's all a temporary 'illusion' in a sense. Oh, there are stars etc out there, but how far away we don't know. How big..? Nope. Composition? Nope. Distance? Nope. You don't know what you thought you knew.
How do you know there are stars out there, dad? Maybe you thought there were stars out there but they isn't! HA! And you thought you knew there were stars!


--subject to evidence of course
What evidence? Oh yeah... dad's bible blather.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
What if I came up with a bible quote?
How about this one?
James 1:17 "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
...and?

How do you know there are stars out there, dad? Maybe you thought there were stars out there but they isn't! HA! And you thought you knew there were stars!
Give science some credit. Even the bible mentions stars.

What evidence? Oh yeah...
Well, that quote was regarding actual scientific evidence that may come, or that may exist, regarding whether the same laws apply far far away or not, but we haven't seen it raised on the blather network here yet.


Guess the experts are a little too scared to show what they have. If at least one doesn't show up soon, I might do their work for them.
 
Upvote 0

Tiberius

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2005
6,032
116
46
✟6,911.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
In Relationship
I doubt that earth laws and forces and light and space exist across the universe. Anyone have proof they do?

I'll ask you the same question I've asked you many times before...

Have you got any testable evidence that the laws are different in other parts of the universe?
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
I'll ask you the same question I've asked you many times before...

Have you got any testable evidence that the laws are different in other parts of the universe?
No. I am just a little man. But I do have a little brain. And it is capable of looking at claims and their basis..to some extent. The standard model is hairy fairy tales.
 
Upvote 0

dad

Undefeated!
Site Supporter
Jan 17, 2005
44,905
1,259
✟25,524.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
We would all love to see that, dad! You actually coming up with answers for a change, instead of just scoffing at your betters?
Well then, here we go.

Look at this link. It is an example of the claims of so called science...


MPIfR PR 06/2008(2)
 
Upvote 0

SithDoughnut

The Agnostic, Ignostic, Apatheistic Atheist
Jan 2, 2010
9,118
306
The Death Starbucks
✟25,974.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
 
Upvote 0